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BN-86 Balun

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Jim Thomson 1274300289Wed, 19 May 2010 20:18:09 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:15:30 -0400
From: "KB1H" 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] BN-86 Balun

I believe the answer is simple. It has to be cheap (not expensive) for the 
ham market. A quality product can be made but those that would spend the 
extra cash are too few thus making the product even more expensive.

## The BN-86 was junk back in 1963... it was junk in the mid 70's.. and it's 
junk today. Hy- gain has no right to even build it.  Pure fraud. 

##  I incinerated 3 x bn-86's [ on 3 x different ants]  back in the mid
70's.   Any bozo can see what the design flaw is... once you open one
up with a bandsaw.   9 x more BN-86's got blown up  around town here
within 2 x yrs. 1976-1979.



American thinking is the product has to do the job not necessarily with the 
highest quality or best technology.  I run up against this everyday for the 
last 30 years!

## so where is the cost savings ???   Joe ham replaces one BN-86
after another after another ??    Why doesn't the ARRL lab just test it
with a 2 kw cxr.. and 2:1 swr.... poof.. bye bye balun.  Then don`t accept
any advertising on the  BN-86... until they fix the problem.

  We measure power output at the ant.. AFTER feed line loss.   There is at least
25+  blown up  BN-86 baluns here in town.  The Attorney general
for what ever state these pieces of junk are made in... should be 
tossing  MFJ-Hi-gain-shue  in the slammer...for false advertising.  Heck, they
are not even 1:1  ratio on 10m.  

##  I had Ken Hirchberg  at  Cal-AV labs  custom  build me  5 x new
baluns several years ago.    They worked  so good, and are so reliable,
I convinced Ken to perhaps  make it a standard product...EB-3.   Pumped
full of silicone goop... done in a VAC chamber.  Special  7-16
DIn connector's used.  Silver plated Teflon 10 ga wire.   I wanted 8 ga, but the
thought was the RG-393 teflon coax used is only 13 ga.  Everything is silver
soldered...and all teflon is 1st etched in a lab in Colo.     They are 17 inchs
long.. and will function from 7-60 mhz.  I have the 80m version as well.. which is
24 x inchs long.    The 160m version is  30 x inchs long. 

You can`t get water into em.. and you can`t blow them up.   The EB1 and EB2 
baluns are excellent as well.   Array solutions has a lot of other good baluns..
like the W1JR  versions.. which use 393 coax as well as 7-16 dins, etc. 

If you want to buy half a doz BN-86`s.... go for it.   One good balun is a lot
cheaper than 20 x BN-86`s.  If you want to HB a balun... just slide type-43
large beads over your 213-U.   Having to  remove the yagi from the top of a
100`tower.. just to change a BN-86 balun is plane nuts.  They should never have to
be rerplaced.  In some cases, cranes are used...and pro -installers used.  I`d send the
Bill to martin himself.  
     
later... Jim  VE7RF 
    





Dick - KB1H
F.R. Ashley 1274301919Wed, 19 May 2010 20:45:19 +0000 (UTC)
Jim & others,

I agree, the BN-86 is junk.  I fried one too on my TH7

73 Buddy WB4M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Thomson" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:17 PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] BN-86 Balun
> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:15:30 -0400 > From: "KB1H" > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] BN-86 Balun > > I believe the answer is simple. It has to be cheap (not expensive) for the > ham market. A quality product can be made but those that would spend the > extra cash are too few thus making the product even more expensive. > > ## The BN-86 was junk back in 1963... it was junk in the mid 70's.. and > it's > junk today. Hy- gain has no right to even build it. Pure fraud. > > ## I incinerated 3 x bn-86's [ on 3 x different ants] back in the mid > 70's. Any bozo can see what the design flaw is... once you open one > up with a bandsaw. 9 x more BN-86's got blown up around town here > within 2 x yrs. 1976-1979. > > > > American thinking is the product has to do the job not necessarily with > the > highest quality or best technology. I run up against this everyday for > the > last 30 years! > > ## so where is the cost savings ??? Joe ham replaces one BN-86 > after another after another ?? Why doesn't the ARRL lab just test it > with a 2 kw cxr.. and 2:1 swr.... poof.. bye bye balun. Then don`t accept > any advertising on the BN-86... until they fix the problem. > > We measure power output at the ant.. AFTER feed line loss. There is at > least > 25+ blown up BN-86 baluns here in town. The Attorney general > for what ever state these pieces of junk are made in... should be > tossing MFJ-Hi-gain-shue in the slammer...for false advertising. Heck, > they > are not even 1:1 ratio on 10m. > > ## I had Ken Hirchberg at Cal-AV labs custom build me 5 x new > baluns several years ago. They worked so good, and are so reliable, > I convinced Ken to perhaps make it a standard product...EB-3. Pumped > full of silicone goop... done in a VAC chamber. Special 7-16 > DIn connector's used. Silver plated Teflon 10 ga wire. I wanted 8 ga, > but the > thought was the RG-393 teflon coax used is only 13 ga. Everything is > silver > soldered...and all teflon is 1st etched in a lab in Colo. They are 17 > inchs > long.. and will function from 7-60 mhz. I have the 80m version as well.. > which is > 24 x inchs long. The 160m version is 30 x inchs long. > > You can`t get water into em.. and you can`t blow them up. The EB1 and > EB2 > baluns are excellent as well. Array solutions has a lot of other good > baluns.. > like the W1JR versions.. which use 393 coax as well as 7-16 dins, etc. > > If you want to buy half a doz BN-86`s.... go for it. One good balun is a > lot > cheaper than 20 x BN-86`s. If you want to HB a balun... just slide > type-43 > large beads over your 213-U. Having to remove the yagi from the top of > a > 100`tower.. just to change a BN-86 balun is plane nuts. They should never > have to > be rerplaced. In some cases, cranes are used...and pro -installers used. > I`d send the > Bill to martin himself. > > later... Jim VE7RF > > > > > > > Dick - KB1H > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TowerTalk mailing list > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/...
Doug Turnbull 1274305225Wed, 19 May 2010 21:40:25 +0000 (UTC)
I too replaced a BN86 on my 204BA twice and that was before the move to
Mississippi.   However not all American product is built to low standards.
The Hy-Gain Antennas were good for their time and held up reasonably well.
Today we have SteppIR Making a fine product and the likes of Elecraft, Flex
and TenTec have produced some amazingly fine radios which are beating the
competition from overseas.   No one will find service to beat that of
Elecraft anywhere else in the world!   

            73 Doug EI2CN

-----Original Message-----
From: 
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Jim Thomson
Sent: 19 May 2010 21:18
To: 
Subject: [TowerTalk] BN-86 Balun

Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:15:30 -0400
From: "KB1H" 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] BN-86 Balun

I believe the answer is simple. It has to be cheap (not expensive) for the 
ham market. A quality product can be made but those that would spend the 
extra cash are too few thus making the product even more expensive.

## The BN-86 was junk back in 1963... it was junk in the mid 70's.. and it's

junk today. Hy- gain has no right to even build it.  Pure fraud. 

##  I incinerated 3 x bn-86's [ on 3 x different ants]  back in the mid
70's.   Any bozo can see what the design flaw is... once you open one
up with a bandsaw.   9 x more BN-86's got blown up  around town here
within 2 x yrs. 1976-1979.



American thinking is the product has to do the job not necessarily with the 
highest quality or best technology.  I run up against this everyday for the 
last 30 years!

## so where is the cost savings ???   Joe ham replaces one BN-86
after another after another ??    Why doesn't the ARRL lab just test it
with a 2 kw cxr.. and 2:1 swr.... poof.. bye bye balun.  Then don`t accept
any advertising on the  BN-86... until they fix the problem.

  We measure power output at the ant.. AFTER feed line loss.   There is at
least
25+  blown up  BN-86 baluns here in town.  The Attorney general
for what ever state these pieces of junk are made in... should be 
tossing  MFJ-Hi-gain-shue  in the slammer...for false advertising.  Heck,
they
are not even 1:1  ratio on 10m.  

##  I had Ken Hirchberg  at  Cal-AV labs  custom  build me  5 x new
baluns several years ago.    They worked  so good, and are so reliable,
I convinced Ken to perhaps  make it a standard product...EB-3.   Pumped
full of silicone goop... done in a VAC chamber.  Special  7-16
DIn connector's used.  Silver plated Teflon 10 ga wire.   I wanted 8 ga, but
the
thought was the RG-393 teflon coax used is only 13 ga.  Everything is silver
soldered...and all teflon is 1st etched in a lab in Colo.     They are 17
inchs
long.. and will function from 7-60 mhz.  I have the 80m version as well..
which is
24 x inchs long.    The 160m version is  30 x inchs long. 

You can`t get water into em.. and you can`t blow them up.   The EB1 and EB2 
baluns are excellent as well.   Array solutions has a lot of other good
baluns..
like the W1JR  versions.. which use 393 coax as well as 7-16 dins, etc. 

If you want to buy half a doz BN-86`s.... go for it.   One good balun is a
lot
cheaper than 20 x BN-86`s.  If you want to HB a balun... just slide type-43
large beads over your 213-U.   Having to  remove the yagi from the top of a
100`tower.. just to change a BN-86 balun is plane nuts.  They should never
have to
be rerplaced.  In some cases, cranes are used...and pro -installers used.
I`d send the
Bill to martin himself.  
     
later... Jim  VE7RF 
    





Dick - KB1H

_______________________________________________



_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list

http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/...
Jim Brown 1274364149Thu, 20 May 2010 14:02:29 +0000 (UTC)
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:17:43 -0700, Jim Thomson wrote: >You can`t get water into em.. and you can`t blow them up. The EB1 and EB2 >baluns are excellent as well.
"Excellent" is a wild exageration with respect to these so-called "baluns," which are nothing more than simple-minded "string of beads" common mode chokes. True that you probably can't blow them up with the illegal power that you like to run, but they aren't very effective as common mode chokes either. Manufacturer's published data is quite inferior to what any ham can make by winding multiple turns of RG8 or RG11 through #31 toroids and they are VERY conservatively rated for max legal ham power. Detailed instructions and MEASURED data are on my website in http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf As to "hams are cheap" -- yes we are, but we are also stupid, buying into advertising claims, and buying inferior junk from companies run by salesmen that know nothing but advertise in QST for 40 years. The common mode chokes described in my tutorial (cited above) are fully documented, and the tutorial completely describes how they work. And I'm not selling anything! The cheap junk you buy from salesmen like Amidon, Palomar, and their ilk is completely undocumented and vastly inferior. They re-sell Fair-Rite parts at huge mark- ups (4-5X cost), but disguise that fact by creating their own new part numbers. That so-called technical data on their websites is next to useless! 73, Jim K9YC
Dan 1274365477Thu, 20 May 2010 14:24:37 +0000 (UTC)
Strong words, Jim but you are right on. Type 31 material is easily 
available from Mouser (no minimum order size) and other electronic parts 
houses.  Poor baluns, even if they do not fail with legal power, allow 
the coax outer shield to be part of your antenna. Who wants their coax 
outer shield radiating part of your power and picking up noise when 
receiving? The info on your web site about your tests takes some careful 
reading to understand but is worth the effort.
   Keep up the good work, Jim.

73, Dan, N5AR
On 5/20/2010 7:01 AM, Jim Brown wrote: > On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:17:43 -0700, Jim Thomson wrote: > > >> You can`t get water into em.. and you can`t blow them up. The EB1 and EB2 >> baluns are excellent as well. >> > "Excellent" is a wild exageration with respect to these so-called "baluns," > which are nothing more than simple-minded "string of beads" common mode > chokes. True that you probably can't blow them up with the illegal power that > you like to run, but they aren't very effective as common mode chokes either. > Manufacturer's published data is quite inferior to what any ham can make by > winding multiple turns of RG8 or RG11 through #31 toroids and they are VERY > conservatively rated for max legal ham power. Detailed instructions and > MEASURED data are on my website in http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf > > As to "hams are cheap" -- yes we are, but we are also stupid, buying into > advertising claims, and buying inferior junk from companies run by salesmen > that know nothing but advertise in QST for 40 years. The common mode chokes > described in my tutorial (cited above) are fully documented, and the tutorial > completely describes how they work. And I'm not selling anything! The cheap > junk you buy from salesmen like Amidon, Palomar, and their ilk is completely > undocumented and vastly inferior. They re-sell Fair-Rite parts at huge mark- > ups (4-5X cost), but disguise that fact by creating their own new part > numbers. That so-called technical data on their websites is next to useless! > > 73, > > Jim K9YC > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TowerTalk mailing list > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/... > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2884 - Release Date: 05/19/10 11:26:00 > >
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