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tl09 release status: coming up

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(Karl Berry)1253662444Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:34:04 +0000 (UTC)
Update on the TeX Live 2009 release: at this point, the only remaining
item known to me is updating the translations of the manual.  (Some have
been done, but not all.)  My expectation is that the DVD will ship with
the binaries currently committed.

Until the translations are done, we will continue to do package updates.
After that, I expect to freeze for a few days while the final images are
built and the full TeX Collection image prepared and updated on CTAN.

After that, we will resume package updates via the tlnet mechanism.
(People running TL 2008 will be best off installing TL 2009 separately,
instead of trying to update/migrate.  We hope that in 2010 a more robust
update will be possible.)

So, if anyone has been waiting to test until things are getting close to
final ... now would be a good time to give it a shot.  Information about
trying the pretest is at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html.

Karl
Staszek Wawrykiewicz 1253665695Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:28:15 +0000 (UTC)
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Karl Berry wrote: > Update on the TeX Live 2009 release: at this point, the only remaining > item known to me is updating the translations of the manual. (Some have > been done, but not all.) My expectation is that the DVD will ship with > the binaries currently committed. > > Until the translations are done, we will continue to do package updates. > After that, I expect to freeze for a few days while the final images are > built and the full TeX Collection image prepared and updated on CTAN.
Karl, I'm very sorry for being show-stopper (as usual:). I'm going to finish the Polish translation tomorrow. Within a few days we expect very important updates: - Latin Modern fonts - TeX Gyre fonts - Ps_ViewWe are all working and try to be on time. All the best,
Philip TAYLOR 1254839897Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:38:17 +0000 (UTC)
Karl Berry wrote: > So, if anyone has been waiting to test until things are getting close to > final ... now would be a good time to give it a shot. Information about > trying the pretest is at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html.
Trying now, for the first time. Choosing the "Rsync" method, I am advised to : rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://somehost/some/path/ /your/local/dir which using the information in : http://tug.org/texlive/mirmon/ and finding no UK mirror, I map to rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exc lude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror whereupon I am told : The source and destination cannot both be remote. rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) at /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4- 1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1136) [receiver=3.0.4] The error message is invariant with the direction of slashes in "h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror" Suggestions, please ? ** Phil.
Joseph Wright 1254840838Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:53:58 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR wrote: > > > Karl Berry wrote: > >> So, if anyone has been waiting to test until things are getting close to >> final ... now would be a good time to give it a shot. Information about >> trying the pretest is at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html. > > Trying now, for the first time. > > Choosing the "Rsync" method, I am advised to : > > rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* > rsync://somehost/some/path/ /your/local/dir > > which using the information in : > > http://tug.org/texlive/mirmon/ > > and finding no UK mirror, I map to > > rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exc > lude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror > > whereupon I am told : > > The source and destination cannot both be remote. > rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) at > /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4- > 1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1136) [receiver=3.0.4] > > The error message is invariant with the direction of slashes > in "h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror" > > Suggestions, please ? > ** Phil.
Can you give us a clue as to your rsync program? On Windows, I only know of it being available as part of cygwin.
Philip TAYLOR 1254841355Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:02:35 +0000 (UTC)
This is the Synametrics port of Rsync, supplied
as a part of their DeltaCopy package, and as used
by me for mirroring TeX Live 2008 last year.

** Phil.
--------
Joseph Wright wrote: > Can you give us a clue as to your rsync program? On Windows, I only know > of it being available as part of cygwin.
Yury G. Kudryashov 1254841879Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:11:19 +0000 (UTC)
В сообщении от 6 октября 2009 19:02:25 автор Philip TAYLOR написал: > This is the Synametrics port of Rsync, supplied > as a part of their DeltaCopy package, and as used > by me for mirroring TeX Live 2008 last year.
Why haven't you contacted Synametrics? It seems that their rsync is either buggy or needs another syntax.
Philip TAYLOR 1254842536Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:22:16 +0000 (UTC)
Yury G. Kudryashov wrote: > Why haven't you contacted Synametrics? It seems that their rsync is either > buggy or needs another syntax.
Because so far there is no evidence to suggest that this behaviour is an artifact of the Synametrics port. * Phil.
Joseph Wright 1254845071Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:04:31 +0000 (UTC)
Joseph Wright wrote: >> rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exc >> lude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror >> >> whereupon I am told : >> >> The source and destination cannot both be remote. >> rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) at >> /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4- >> 1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1136) [receiver=3.0.4] >> >> The error message is invariant with the direction of slashes >> in "h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror"
Okay, I tried this with rsync linked against Cygwin, and got the same result. I think the issue is the ":" specifying the drive, as it *does* work if I do: rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ /temp/texlive However, that doesn't go from C:\, but from the current directory. I guess this is a rsync think: not really related to TeX Live at all. (I should add that I've had no issues on Windows just downloading the installer via http then letting it "do its thing".)
Joseph Wright 1254844769Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:59:29 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Suggestions, please ? > ** Phil.
Now I've sussed it out, at least using the Cygwin rsync: rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive /cygdrive/c/temp/TeXlive
Philip TAYLOR 1254842556Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:22:36 +0000 (UTC)
(cont).

As a work-around, I change directory to H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror
and replace the final element of the previous "Rsync" incantation
with "."  Rsync is then prepared to do something, but immediately
reports :
> skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.exe" > skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.exe.sha256" > skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.sh" > skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.sh.sha256"
What are "non-regular" files, please ? ** Phil.
Philip TAYLOR 1254844653Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:57:33 +0000 (UTC)
Vladimir Volovich has kindly identified the root cause of
the problem :
> syntax of the destination starting with h: tells rsync that it is a > remote host names "h" (that's how rsync over ssh is used).
Vladimir recommended making H: the default drive and then using a simplified path, but that seemed a little kludgy to me (even 'though I am currently doing exactly that, so as to make progress), so after a little thought and experiment I am pleased to be able to report that it is not strictly necessary. In fact, one can use a UNC for the destination, with the proviso that the slashes must be forward slashes, and therefore the following is a solution. rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ //<localhost>/<localpath> e.g., rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ //RV-5/H$/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror It would, IMHO, be worth documenting this lest any other Windows users fall into this trap. ** Phil.
Reinhard Kotucha 1254872466Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:41:06 +0000 (UTC)
On 6 October 2009 Philip TAYLOR wrote: > In fact, one can use a UNC for the destination, with the proviso > that the slashes must be forward slashes, and therefore the > following is a solution. > > rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* > rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ //<localhost>/<localpath>
Hi Phil, I assume that you don't want to type this on the command line each time you want to update. A more convenient solution is to write a batch file. ------------------------------------------------------------------ @echo off cd c:\some\directory rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ ./relative/path/to/target/dir ------------------------------------------------------------------ Because you first "cd" to a particular directory, you can use relative paths in order to avoid the colon in the rsync argument list.
On 6 October 2009 Yury G. Kudryashov wrote: > Why haven't you contacted Synametrics? It seems that their rsync is > either buggy or needs another syntax.
I think that we should acknowledge that there is a Windows port at all. rsync was written for Unix. Porting it to Windows is a pain because Windows is not POSIX compliant. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover
Philip TAYLOR 1254902652Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:04:12 +0000 (UTC)
Dear Reinhard (copy all) --
Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > A more convenient solution is to write a batch file.
Agreed, but (a) I don't like batch files (they replace thought with action : rarely a good idea, IMHO !), and (b) my point was rather that the present documentation is inadequate, not to say seriously misleading, for any na\i ve Windows user wishing to help with the testing of TL 2009. Once I can get to the point of being able to test myself (I am still stuck at the point of "Access is denied"), I will be more than happy to offer better documentation which takes the needs of Windows' users properly into account. In the meantime, I have implemented a Windows' shortcut which performs the Rsynching, taking advantage of the fact that Windows' shortcuts support the concept of a "Start-in" directory. I have also added the "--progress" qualifier so as to gain a better insight into what exactly is happening. ** Phil.
Joseph Wright 1254903564Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:19:24 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Dear Reinhard (copy all) -- > > Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > >> A more convenient solution is to write a batch file. > > Agreed, but (a) I don't like batch files (they replace > thought with action : rarely a good idea, IMHO !), and > (b) my point was rather that the present documentation > is inadequate, not to say seriously misleading, for > any na\i ve Windows user wishing to help with the testing > of TL 2009. Once I can get to the point of being able > to test myself (I am still stuck at the point of "Access > is denied"), I will be more than happy to offer better > documentation which takes the needs of Windows' users > properly into account.
I'd imagine that most Windows users will take my approach: download the stand-alone installer and user that. rsync is already quite "odd" for Windows people, I'd say. However, you're right that the documentation should at least try to give useful advice!
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1254913589Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:06:29 +0000 (UTC)
Joseph Wright a écrit : > I'd imagine that most Windows users will take my approach: download the > stand-alone installer and user that. rsync is already quite "odd" for > Windows people, I'd say.
I agree.
> However, you're right that the documentation > should at least try to give useful advice!
Well, though improved documentation can never hurt, I'd like to point out that pretesting, and especially using the rsync approach, is not really meant for the "typical" user. Manuel.
Reinhard Kotucha 1254943760Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:29:20 +0000 (UTC)
On 7 October 2009 Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > Joseph Wright a écrit : >> However, you're right that the documentation >> should at least try to give useful advice! > > Well, though improved documentation can never hurt, I'd like to > point out that pretesting, and especially using the rsync approach, > is not really meant for the "typical" user.
Yes, it's not TeX Live specific, but it would be very nice to have this information on the rsync-for-Windows download page. Maybe someone is willing to contact Synametrics in order to make such a suggestion... Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover
Philip TAYLOR 1254902800Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:06:40 +0000 (UTC)
New problem (occurred at end of mirroring)
> archive/wadalab.tar.xz > 17771572 100% 10.32MB/s 0:00:01 (xfer#6963, to-check=1711/7104) > ERROR: archive/wadalab.tar.xz failed verification -- update discarded. > > sent 6172115 bytes received 14355042 bytes 41934.95 bytes/sec > total size is 1180867730 speedup is 57.53 > rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 2 > 3) at /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4-1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1506) [generator > =3.0.4]
"Access is denied" error remains a major impasse. ** Phil.
Philip TAYLOR 1254856880Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:21:20 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR wrote: > As a work-around, I change directory to H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror > and replace the final element of the previous "Rsync" incantation > with "."
OK, that stage is now complete. The next stage is installing, for which the web page says :
> Installing > > After downloading as above, you can run the script install-tl (Unix) or install-tl.bat (Windows) to perform the installation: > > * install-tl location -gui text for text (command line) mode; default on Unix. > * install-tl location -gui wizard for severely simplified GUI installation asking only the minimal questions; default on Windows. > * install-tl location -gui perltk for advanced/expert GUI installation with the usual array of options; requires Perl/Tk. > > In each case, the location option must be given for the pretest: install-tl -location http://somehost/some/path ... > The exact somehost/some/path urls to use are the link targets on the texlive-pretest mirmon page.
Now there are a couple of problems here. 1) Unless the location to which I mirrored the installation kit is already in my path, "Install-tl[.bat]" won't be found. 2) the <location> option, if I have elected to Rsync the entire installation kit, is presumably /not/ a link target on the TeX Live pre-test mir-mon page, but rather the location on my local system to which I have performed the mirroring. So, assuming that the above assumptions were correct, I did the following : 1) Set default to the location to which I had mirrored the installation kit : H: CD H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror 2) Typed "Install-TL -location . -gui perltk" Unfortunately it then reported "Access denied" :
> PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM > ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > Access is denied. > Press any key to continue . . .
These same symptoms can consistently be replicated by iteratively stripping trailing elements from the incantation, leaving (at end) just "Install-TL" (or "Install-TL.bat"), and also with ".\Install-TL[.bat]". Any new suggestions, please ? ** Phil.
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1254860084Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:14:44 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR a écrit : > 1) Unless the location to which I mirrored the installation > kit is already in my path, "Install-tl[.bat]" won't be found. >
You need to cd to this directory, or open the folder in explorer and double-click the file here. I thought windows users were used to do that.
> 2) the <location> option, if I have elected to Rsync the > entire installation kit, is presumably /not/ a link target > on the TeX Live pre-test mir-mon page, but rather the location > on my local system to which I have performed the mirroring. >
Sure.
> Unfortunately it then reported "Access denied" : >
I have no idea about this one. Which version of windows? Manuel.
Philip TAYLOR 1254903591Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:19:51 +0000 (UTC)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > Philip TAYLOR a écrit : >> Unfortunately it then reported "Access is denied" : >> > I have no idea about this one. Which version of windows?
Further to this, and with brain in more appropriate gear (the last two days have been beset with hardware failures, which tend to drive out rational thought), I have modified "Install-TL.bat" to commence "@Echo on" rather than "@Echo off" as supplied, and can now report that the problem appears to result from the first attempt to launch PERL :
> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>rem Start installer > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>path > PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM > ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" > Access is denied.
** Phil.
Philip TAYLOR 1254904324Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:32:04 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" >> Access is denied.
A further check shews that it is PERL that is the problem rather than "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl", since just "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl" is sufficient to trigger the "Access is denied" message. Setting default to that directory and attempting to run PERL from there produces exactly the same symptoms. ** Phil.
Philip TAYLOR 1254904881Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:41:21 +0000 (UTC)
Here is the output from CACLS :
> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin>cacls perl.exe > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin\perl.exe RV-5\Chaa006:(special access:) > STANDARD_RIGHTS_ALL > DELETE > READ_CONTROL > WRITE_DAC > WRITE_OWNER > SYNCHRONIZE > STANDARD_RIGHTS_REQUIRED > FILE_GENERIC_READ > FILE_GENERIC_WRITE > FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE > FILE_READ_DATA > FILE_WRITE_DATA > FILE_APPEND_DATA > FILE_READ_EA > FILE_WRITE_EA > FILE_EXECUTE > FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES > FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES > > RV-5\None:R > Everyone:R
whilst here (for contrast) is the output of the same command for my normal "ActiveState" PERL which does work :
> E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin>cacls perl.exe > E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin\perl.exe BUILTIN\Administrators:F > Everyone:R
** Phil.
Philip TAYLOR 1254906779Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:12:59 +0000 (UTC)
Acting on instinct, I deleted "perl.exe.manifest"
from H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;
TeX Live PERL now runs, for the first time :-)

Sadly, we are by no means out of the water.  The
installation now aborts as follows (echo remains enabled) :
> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>path > PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM > ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" -local . -gui > perltk > Can't load 'H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\lib/auto/Win32/API/API.dll' for > module Win32::API: load_file:Access is denied at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\ > tlperl\lib/DynaLoader.pm line 230. > at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo.pm line 130 > Compilation failed in require at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo. > pm line 130. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWin > Goo.pm line 141. > Compilation failed in require at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl line 62. > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>pause
** Phil.
Norbert Preining 1254912367Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:46:07 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Phil,

(taking some ccsout)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" -local . -gui >> perltk
Why don't you do: h: cd \tex\live\2009\mirror install-tl ... or h:\tex\live\2009\mirror\install-tl.bat ... BTW, what is that -local . an argument for? It is AFAIR not an argument that is supported by the installer. Best wishes Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1254912525Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:48:45 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > BTW, what is that -local . an argument for? It is AFAIR not an argument > that is supported by the installer.
The "-local" appears to be a typo (I haven't checked the original) but in reality it reads "-location .", since the pre-test documentation states that a <location> must be given, and gives the syntax of a <location> as "-location <local-or-remote-path>". ** Phil.
Norbert Preining 1254913150Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:59:10 +0000 (UTC)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > The "-local" appears to be a typo (I haven't checked the original) > but in reality it reads "-location .", since the pre-test documentation
Yes, or -repository (as it is suggested now) or even -repo Best wishes Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1254913350Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:02:30 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> The "-local" appears to be a typo (I haven't checked the original) >> but in reality it reads "-location .", since the pre-test documentation > > Yes, or > -repository > (as it is suggested now) or even > -rep
OK, but these are not mentioned at all at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html which is the only documentation to which potential pre-testers are referred ... ** Phil.
Norbert Preining 1254913775Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:09:35 +0000 (UTC)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > OK, but these are not mentioned at all at
Irrelevant, they are all synonyms. Best wishes Norbert
Norbert Preining 1254913517Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:05:17 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Phil,

please stay on list, thanks.
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> Can't load 'H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\lib/auto/Win32/API/API.dll' for >> module Win32::API: load_file:Access is denied at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\ >> tlperl\lib/DynaLoader.pm line 230.
No idea, what OS (Vista? Windows 7?)? If it is one of those please get the manifest file, it is in fact needed. I cannot say more than that I have no idea what is going on here. I only know that I am testing that whole bunch on WinXP and Win7 and it simply works, but I didn't rsync the sources, nor did I remove the .manifest file (which was a long story but without it you will get more serious problems!) Best wishes Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1254913716Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:08:36 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > Hi Phil, > > please stay on list, thanks.
Not sure what this means : have I transgressed (unintentionally gone off-list) or am I simply being urged to continue in beta-testing ?
> On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >>> Can't load 'H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\lib/auto/Win32/API/API.dll' for >>> module Win32::API: load_file:Access is denied at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\ >>> tlperl\lib/DynaLoader.pm line 230. > > No idea, what OS (Vista? Windows 7?)? If it is one of those please get > the manifest file, it is in fact needed.
Windows XP Professional, 32-bit, Service Pack 3.
> I cannot say more than that I have no idea what is going on here. > > I only know that I am testing that whole bunch on WinXP and Win7 > and it simply works, but I didn't rsync the sources, nor did I remove > the .manifest file (which was a long story but without it you will get > more serious problems!)
Well, I've never needed a .manifest file before. Are you /sure/ these are needed for XP ? As far as I can see, they are needed for Vista (spit, retch, puke), but just cause insurmountable problems in XP ... ** Phil.
Norbert Preining 1254914510Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:21:50 +0000 (UTC)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> please stay on list, thanks. > > Not sure what this means : have I transgressed > (unintentionally gone off-list) or am I simply
Yes, email only to me not to the list. > Windows XP Professional, 32-bit, Service Pack 3. Even more strange.
> Well, I've never needed a .manifest file before. Are you > /sure/ these are needed for XP ? As far as I can see, they
I never said that. They are needed for Vista and W7. Then I can only imagine ... HOW did you rsync, did you use the -a switch or at least the -p and -E switches (instead of -a)? Otherwise the files will somehow have strange permissions. Retry to sync with rsync -avz ..... Best wishes Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1254914867Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:27:47 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > HOW did you rsync, did you use the > -a > switch or at least the -p and -E switches (instead of -a)?
I followed the exact instructions at : http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html which read (in part) : rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://somehost/some/path/ /your/local/dir which after instantiating to reality became : "E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy\rsync.exe" -r --delete --progress --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ /TeX/Live/2009/Mirror (note --progress added only today, after capturing this incantation in a Windows' shortcut).
> > Otherwise the files will somehow have strange permissions. > > Retry to sync with > rsync -avz .....
Will do that now. ** Phil.
Norbert Preining 1254915124Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:32:04 +0000 (UTC)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > > HOW did you rsync, did you use the > > -a > > switch or at least the -p and -E switches (instead of -a)? > > I followed the exact instructions at : > > http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html > > which read (in part) : > > rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* > rsync://somehost/some/path/ /your/local/dir
Ahh, that might be a problem. No idea what Windows does with the execute permissions ... Yes, the --progress comes in handy. Please retry with -a or -p -E and see if it helps. Best wishes Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1254915073Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:31:13 +0000 (UTC)
P.S.
> Retry to sync with > rsync -avz .....
Does "-avz" /replace/ "-r -delete", or supplement them ? ** P.
Norbert Preining 1254915190Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:33:10 +0000 (UTC)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> Retry to sync with rsync -avz ..... > > Does "-avz" /replace/ "-r -delete", or supplement them ?
It replaces the -r, but not the -delete Best wishes Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1254916082Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:48:02 +0000 (UTC)
After "-avz" replaced "-r", the Rsynch appeared to
take place instantaneously (the previous run had had
"-avz" as well as "-r", and took finite time),
the .manifest file has  re-appeared, and PERL has once
again stopped working ("Access is denied").

Drawing-board.return-to ()

** Phil.
--------
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >>> Retry to sync with rsync -avz ..... >> Does "-avz" /replace/ "-r -delete", or supplement them ? > > It replaces the -r, but not the -delete > > Best wishes > > Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1255017504Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:58:24 +0000 (UTC)
Dear Norbert -- I was about to file a "no progress"
report when I realised that I was uncertain as to
your intentions : when you suggested that I replace
"-r" by "-avz" in the Rsync incantation, did you
intend that I first delete the entire mirror and
then re-create it, or did you believe that "-avz"
would set the correct flags on already-mirrored
files ?  I assumed the latter, but now realise
that you may instead have meant the former.

* Phil.
--------
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >>> Retry to sync with rsync -avz ..... >> Does "-avz" /replace/ "-r -delete", or supplement them ? > > It replaces the -r, but not the -delete > > Best wishes > > Norbert
Norbert Preining 1255062347Fri, 09 Oct 2009 04:25:47 +0000 (UTC)
On Thu, 08 Oct 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Dear Norbert -- I was about to file a "no progress" > report when I realised that I was uncertain as to > your intentions : when you suggested that I replace > "-r" by "-avz" in the Rsync incantation, did you
Sorry, I have NO idea what the problem is. In fact I am sorry, but probably we should write: Using rsync on Windows can create strange problems and we have no idea how they could be fixed. Sorry, I am Linux guy, and do my testing in a virtualbox, never thought about using rsync on windows. Best wishes Norbert
Philip TAYLOR 1255075266Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:01:06 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > Sorry, I have NO idea what the problem is. In fact I am sorry, but > probably we should write: > Using rsync on Windows can create strange problems and we > have no idea how they could be fixed. > Sorry, I am Linux guy, and do my testing in a virtualbox, never thought > about using rsync on windows.
OK, but let us leave out the issue of Rsync; what about the fact that under Windows/XP, the presence of the .manifest file prevents access to "Install-TL.bat" (as confirmed by removal of the .manifest file), and that even when the .manifest file is removed, the installation fails with a further "Access is denied" message when attempting to launch PERL, for which there is also a .manifest file which, if removed, allows access to PERL.exe ? And what about the fact that even when these two .manifest files are removed, installation aborts at : > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" -location . -g
> ui perltk > Can't load
'H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\lib/auto/Win32/API/API.dll' for > module Win32::API: load_file:Access is denied at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\
> tlperl\lib/DynaLoader.pm line 230. > at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo.pm line 130 > Compilation failed in require at
H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo.
> pm line 130. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at
H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWin
> Goo.pm line 141. > Compilation failed in require at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl
line 62. It seems to me that moving to release status is still somewhat premature for Windows users, who numerically exceed Linux users by a substantial ratio. ** Phil.
Joseph Wright 1255078568Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:56:08 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR wrote: > It seems to me that moving to release status is still somewhat > premature for Windows users, who numerically exceed Linux users > by a substantial ratio.
But: 1) When downloading the installer and letting it do the installation, all is fine. That is the most common method for Windows users, I suspect. 2) Although there are lots of Windows users, most of them are likely to use MiKTeX if they want a TeX system.
Philip TAYLOR 1255077153Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:32:33 +0000 (UTC)
Joseph Wright wrote: > 1) When downloading the installer and letting it do the installation, > all is fine. That is the most common method for Windows users, I suspect.
If this uses similar methodology to last year's network installer, then it is substantially slower that installing from a local mirror.
> 2) Although there are lots of Windows users, most of them are likely to > use MiKTeX if they want a TeX system.
But would they not do better to migrate to TeX Live ? I did, at Sebastian's suggestion, many many years ago, and I have never regretted it. And do the TeX Live team not want to encourage Windows users to migrate to TeX Live ? At the moment, there are considerable obstacles to that migration, all of which were resolved before last year's TeX Live release; now we seem to be taking a step backwards, and moving towards the release of a product while substantial problems remain with a local (and therefore fast) install. ** Phil.
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255081341Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:42:21 +0000 (UTC)
Joseph Wright a écrit : > Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> It seems to me that moving to release status is still somewhat >> premature for Windows users, who numerically exceed Linux users >> by a substantial ratio. > > But: > > 1) When downloading the installer and letting it do the installation, > all is fine. That is the most common method for Windows users, I suspect. >
By the way, Phil, could you actually try this method (choosing scheme-minimal if you want to avoid hours of download for testing)? Just to confirm that the problem on your machine is actually related to rsync, and not to something in your system?
> 2) Although there are lots of Windows users, most of them are likely to > use MiKTeX if they want a TeX system.
I don't quite agree. I mean, you're right that most of them do, but we spent quite a lot of time trying to get windows support right, it would be a pity to say that people should just use MiKTeX after all these efforts. Manuel.
Philip TAYLOR 1255081496Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:44:56 +0000 (UTC)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > By the way, Phil, could you actually try this method (choosing
scheme-minimal if > you want to avoid hours of download for testing)? Just to confirm that the > problem on your machine is actually related to rsync, and not to something in > your system? By all means, Manuel. At the moment I am just re-doing the Rsync -avz method, with an empty mirror, to see if that improves matters; once that is complete, I will try a minimal network install.
>> 2) Although there are lots of Windows users, most of them are likely to >> use MiKTeX if they want a TeX system. > > I don't quite agree. I mean, you're right that most of them do, but
we spent > quite a lot of time trying to get windows support right, it would be a pity to > say that people should just use MiKTeX after all these efforts. I agree (as you can imagine !). ** Phil.
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255086073Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:01:13 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR a écrit : > Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > >> By the way, Phil, could you actually try this method (choosing >> scheme-minimal if you want to avoid hours of download for testing)? >> Just to confirm that the problem on your machine is actually related >> to rsync, and not to something in your system? > > By all means, Manuel. At the moment I am just re-doing the > Rsync -avz method, with an empty mirror, to see if that > improves matters; once that is complete, I will try a > minimal network install. >
For the sake of symetry, I tried rsync from the DeltaCopy package by Synametrics on my windows box (XP SP3) with C:\tlnet>"c:\Program Files\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy\rsync.exe" -avz --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ . I got the same error: C:\tlnet>install-tl.bat PATH=C:\tlnet\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem Accès refusé. (Last line is "access denied".) I've got no clue as to what is going wrong, since I know nothing about windows permissions, but this confirms that mirroring using this version of rsync only leads to problems. I think we should document that. If we can identify a reliable method for getting a local mirror on windows (I tend to think a simple ftp client would do for a on-time mirror, ie without synchronization) and document it somewhere, I think that would be good. Manuel.
Philip TAYLOR 1255086259Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:04:19 +0000 (UTC)
Dear Manuel (copy all) --
> For the sake of symetry, I tried rsync from the DeltaCopy package by > Synametrics on my windows box (XP SP3) with > > C:\tlnet>"c:\Program Files\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy\rsync.exe" > -avz --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* > rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ . > > I got the same error: > > C:\tlnet>install-tl.bat > PATH=C:\tlnet\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem > Accès refusé. > > (Last line is "access denied".)
OK, but if you remove the .manifest file, access will be allowed. I am uncertain at this stage as to whether the fundamental problem lies with Rsync (or the exact incantation used to launch it) or with the .manifest files, but bearing in mind that for TeX Live 2008 I was able to use Rsync without difficulty, I am more inclined to suspect the .manifest files. ** Phil.
Joseph Wright 1255086999Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:16:39 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Dear Manuel (copy all) -- > >> For the sake of symetry, I tried rsync from the DeltaCopy package by >> Synametrics on my windows box (XP SP3) with >> >> C:\tlnet>"c:\Program Files\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy\rsync.exe" >> -avz --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* >> rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ . >> >> I got the same error: >> >> C:\tlnet>install-tl.bat >> PATH=C:\tlnet\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem >> >> Accès refusé. >> >> (Last line is "access denied".) > > OK, but if you remove the .manifest file, access will > be allowed. I am uncertain at this stage as to whether > the fundamental problem lies with Rsync (or the exact > incantation used to launch it) or with the .manifest > files, but bearing in mind that for TeX Live 2008 I was able to use > Rsync without difficulty, I am more > inclined to suspect the .manifest files. > > ** Phil. >
The .manifest doesn't seem to make much difference to me. (Some Cygwin stuff suggests it might have, though. Are you using the same version of rsync in both cases?) As is explained somewhere, the .manifest is to do with how Vista/Win7 "think" about files. (On the other hand, *why* are the TL team wanting installation not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install as Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get this.)
Siep Kroonenberg 1255093362Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:02:42 +0000 (UTC)
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 12:17:12PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote: > Philip TAYLOR wrote: > > As is explained somewhere, the .manifest is to do with how Vista/Win7 > "think" about files. (On the other hand, *why* are the TL team wanting > installation not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install as > Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get this.) > -- > Joseph Wright
E.g. if you sysadmin doesn't give you enough rights on your computer.
C.M. Connelly 1255382020Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:13:40 +0000 (UTC)
"SK" == Siep Kroonenberg 
"JW" == Joseph Wright

    JW> (On the other hand, *why* the TL team wanting installation
    JW> are not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install
    JW> as Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get
    JW> this.)

    SK> E.g. if you sysadmin doesn't give you enough rights on
    SK> your computer.

I can assure you that if one of my users installed TeX Live in
their own account, I would be very, very unhappy with them, and
I'm fairly sure I speak for most sysadmins.  Definitely make it
easy to use from a DVD or USB drive, but please *don't* make it
easy to install in individuals' accounts.

   Claire

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
  Claire Connelly                              
  Systems Administrator                          (909) 621-8754
  Department of Mathematics                 Harvey Mudd College
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Reinhard Kotucha 1255471286Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:01:26 +0000 (UTC)
On 12 October 2009 C.M. Connelly wrote: > "SK" == Siep Kroonenberg > "JW" == Joseph Wright > > JW> (On the other hand, *why* the TL team wanting installation > JW> are not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install > JW> as Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get > JW> this.) > > SK> E.g. if you sysadmin doesn't give you enough rights on > SK> your computer. > > I can assure you that if one of my users installed TeX Live in > their own account, I would be very, very unhappy with them, and > I'm fairly sure I speak for most sysadmins. Definitely make it > easy to use from a DVD or USB drive, but please *don't* make it > easy to install in individuals' accounts.
I think it should be possible to install TeX Live easily everywhere. Do you mean that it should be difficult to install TL as a non-privileged user? This would be bad. I'm maintaining a TL system on a Linux server where I'm not root. People can mount it on their Windows machines or use it on the server. The best way to prevent users from installing TL in $HOME is to provide TL yourself and maintain it properly. Why should a user want to install it himself, then? Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover
Victor Ivrii 1255473839Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:43:59 +0000 (UTC)
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > On 12 October 2009 C.M. Connelly wrote: > > > "SK" == Siep Kroonenberg > > "JW" == Joseph Wright > > > > JW> (On the other hand, *why* the TL team wanting installation > > JW> are not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install > > JW> as Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get > > JW> this.) > > > > SK> E.g. if you sysadmin doesn't give you enough rights on > > SK> your computer. > > > > I can assure you that if one of my users installed TeX Live in > > their own account, I would be very, very unhappy with them, and > > I'm fairly sure I speak for most sysadmins. Definitely make it > > easy to use from a DVD or USB drive, but please *don't* make it > > easy to install in individuals' accounts. > > I think it should be possible to install TeX Live easily everywhere. > > Do you mean that it should be difficult to install TL as a > non-privileged user? This would be bad. I'm maintaining a TL system > on a Linux server where I'm not root. People can mount it on their > Windows machines or use it on the server.
I second it: as non-priviledged user I'm maintaining TL2008 (to be retired in a couple of months) and TL2009 also on Unix with absolutely no problem. However to do this I have a completely separate login and have all rights on /usr/local/texlive which is probably way better than in some "own" directory. Definitely one need to install in texmf-local packages which are required but are not part of TL due to various reasons (licensing) and some really local files. Unfortunately many my esteemed colleagues do not want to switch from tetex-3 and I am really puzzled why it works despite corresponding texmf-local looks like city-dump :-) Sure some users may install few files in ~/texmf/ Victor
> > The best way to prevent users from installing TL in $HOME is to > provide TL yourself and maintain it properly. Why should a user want > to install it himself, then? > > Regards, > Reinhard > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 > Marschnerstr. 25 > D-30167 Hannover > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >
C.M. Connelly 1255474650Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:57:30 +0000 (UTC)
"RK" == Reinhard Kotucha 
"JW" == Joseph Wright

    RK> I think it should be possible to install TeX Live easily
    RK> everywhere.

Me, too.

    RK> Do you mean that it should be difficult to install TL as a
    RK> non-privileged user?  This would be bad.  I'm maintaining
    RK> a TL system on a Linux server where I'm not root.  People
    RK> can mount it on their Windows machines or use it on the
    RK> server.

I was responding to a comment from Siep, who was responding to
Joseph Wright, who said

    JW> (On the other hand, *why* the TL team wanting installation
    JW> are not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install
    JW> as Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get
    JW> this.)

In general, I think that making it easy for end-users to violate
system policies is not a good thing, especially if you're hoping
to get people to install your software as part of an official
software load.


    RK> The best way to prevent users from installing TL in $HOME
    RK> is to provide TL yourself and maintain it properly.  Why
    RK> should a user want to install it himself, then?

I agree, and we install TeX systems on all our machines.  However,
in my experience, providing software doesn't mean that you won't
have users try to install their own versions, and I'm not really
excited about making it easier for them to do so.

   Claire

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
  Claire Connelly                              
  Systems Administrator                          (909) 621-8754
  Department of Mathematics                 Harvey Mudd College
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) 1255475787Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:16:27 +0000 (UTC)
C.M. Connelly wrote: > In general, I think that making it easy for end-users to violate > system policies is not a good thing, especially if you're hoping > to get people to install your software as part of an official > software load.
Surely the responsibility for the enforcement of system policies lies with the system administrator, not with the software supplier ? Philip Taylor
Victor Ivrii 1255507184Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:59:44 +0000 (UTC)
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Robin Fairbairns wrote: > we would like tex to > be part of every system install,
I am not sure that it is such a good idea. Our Department orders RHL because University administration believes it provides the best stability and support. But it is very conservative and comes with rather well established (aka obsolete) staff, in particular with tetex-3.0 (at least it was the case a couple of years ago) and there is very little incentive to update it (actually, on the contrary, there are always a couple of my esteemed colleagues who have ancient files which due to some miracle work with tetex-3 distribution but may break with the newer packages and then the hell breaks loose; so overloaded system administrators are rather scared to update TeX especially to TeXLive because of accusations: "You changed the system and my files stopped working" while in fact usually it is the case with these users "slightly" changing something). So, preinstalled TeX is a double-edged sword: it forces TeX in the cases when it would not be installed otherwise but it forces obsolete TeX in the cases when a newer version would be installed anyway Victor >
Victor Ivrii 1255515511Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:18:31 +0000 (UTC)
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:50 AM, Robin Fairbairns wrote: > Victor Ivrii wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Robin Fairbairns >> wrote: >> > we would like tex to >> > be part of every system install, >> >> I am not sure that it is such a good idea. Our Department orders RHL >> because University administration believes it provides the best >> stability and support. But it is very conservative and comes with >> rather well established (aka obsolete) staff, in particular with >> tetex-3.0 (at least it was the case a couple of years ago) > > redhat has changed. rhel (aka centos, i think) does indeed still > install tetex, but i suspect it's due for an update, at which time it > will be difficult for them to avoid tl (though presumably tl07).
Yes - it is enterprise edition
> >> and there >> is very little incentive to update it (actually, on the contrary, >> there are always a couple of my esteemed colleagues who have ancient >> files which due to some miracle work with tetex-3 distribution but may >> break with the newer packages and then the hell breaks loose; so >> overloaded system administrators are rather scared to update TeX >> especially to TeXLive because of accusations: "You changed the system >> and my files stopped working" while in fact usually it is the case >> with these users "slightly" changing something). > > i guess things are different here; though since we started installing > tl07 as standard, we've only had a couple of such bleats.
Yes, there are not many of such people, but two of them can make the life of admin miserable
> > tetex 3, in fact, isn't _all_ that bad (indeed, i deliberately run it at > home, to check the compatibility of the faq releases).
Yes! I was happy with it until TL2008 on my own computers (albeit putting updated packages in the texmf-local tree)
> >> So, preinstalled TeX is a double-edged sword: it forces TeX in the >> cases when it would not be installed otherwise but it forces obsolete >> TeX in the cases when a newer version would be installed anyway > > i'm well aware of that, but there's little we (tex live) can do about > it. i guess it might be a good idea for packages to issue warnings > saying "you're running an obsolete tex distribution, this package may > not work", so that people (herds of them) who "find a package on the > internet" get warned of the problems they might encounter. > > i suspect you're on the same side as me, though, saying tex live > _shouldn't_ be avoiding "simplifying" action, for fear that people will > get in over their heads.
Somehow I am not sure that simplifying actions always make life simpler, sometimes they go opposite way. There is an old joke about a dog owner who wanted his dog tail docked but he emphasized with the poor animal and used the gradual approach chopping each month one inch Victor
> > robin >
T T 1255096344Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:52:24 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/9 Joseph Wright : > (On the other hand, *why* are the TL team wanting > installation not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install as > Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get this.)
Then you also need to run updates with admin privs or they will fail on Vista, where you normally run unelevated even on admin accounts. We had a long internal discussion about it and we decided that defaulting to a single user installation that is outside of %ProgramFiles% gives the best changes of trouble-free installation on all supported Windows versions. Of course, admin installs are still possible, they are just not done by default any more. Cheers, Tomek
Alexander Cherepanov 1255116943Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:35:43 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Joseph! On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:17:12 +0100, Joseph Wright wrote: > (On the other hand, *why* are the TL team wanting > installation not to run as Administrator? The usual rule is install as > Admin, use as a non-privileged user. I don't quite get this.)
Generally speaking, the possibilty to install as non-admin is very nice feature. You don't always have admin rights on a computer where you need to use tex. And it's quite annoying when an installer doesn't really need admin rights but refuses to launch without them because of some quirks. Alexander Cherepanov
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255087221Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:20:21 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR a écrit : > OK, but if you remove the .manifest file, access will > be allowed. I am uncertain at this stage as to whether > the fundamental problem lies with Rsync (or the exact > incantation used to launch it) or with the .manifest > files, but bearing in mind that for TeX Live 2008 I was able to use > Rsync without difficulty, I am more > inclined to suspect the .manifest files. >
Let's say the problem comes from combining the manifest files with Synametrics' rsync. As we can't drop the manifest files, since they are needed for vista and work with netinstall (which is the "standard" installation method) on any windows we've tested (XP, Vista, Windows 7), the fault goes to this version of rsync. Did you try with other versions of rsync? A quick search show cwrsync is a rsync package for windows that doesn't require to install a full Cygwin environment. I have to go now, but later I'll try other methods of "mirroring" like ftp or plain copying from my linux box to my windows (virtual)box. Manuel.
Joseph Wright 1255086806Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:13:26 +0000 (UTC)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > For the sake of symetry, I tried rsync from the DeltaCopy package by > Synametrics on my windows box (XP SP3) with > > C:\tlnet>"c:\Program Files\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy\rsync.exe" > -avz --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* > rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ . > > I got the same error: > > C:\tlnet>install-tl.bat > PATH=C:\tlnet\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem > Accès refusé. > > (Last line is "access denied".) > > I've got no clue as to what is going wrong, since I know nothing about > windows permissions, but this confirms that mirroring using this version > of rsync only leads to problems. I think we should document that. > > If we can identify a reliable method for getting a local mirror on > windows (I tend to think a simple ftp client would do for a on-time > mirror, ie without synchronization) and document it somewhere, I think > that would be good.
Hello all, Like Manue, I also set out to do some testing. However, I know a bit more about Windows so I can provide a (sort of) solution. I downloaded rsync from http://www.doering-thomas.de/page.php?seite=1... (this is the Cygwin version but without needing all of Cygwin). I then did rsync -a -v --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* sync://guiling.fr/ texlive/ /cygdrive/c/temp/texlive/ to grab everything. As previously described, if you then try install-tl you get Access Denied. This is due to the way rsync sets Windows file permissions. So I logged on as the Administrator on my system, and used the Security part of the Properties box to take ownership of everything I'd rsync'ed, and reset all of the file permissions to "Inherited" (i.e. removed everything that rsync had set). Then I ran install-tl again, and all was fine. This is to do with the "noacl" setting for Cygwin, I think, but it seems a bit awkward to set it from the command line (you need to create /etc/fstab where Cygwin will find it, set stuff there, ...). I've not tried to do this as it does not seem trivial and the only way to really know it's work is another long rsync. Conclusion is that rsync on Windows is not easy to convince to use the appropriate file permissions: that is not TeX Live's fault. Resetting them is not too bad if you know how, but I'm not sure how many people do. So I'd suggest that rsync on Windows is really for the expert only: something like ftp seems more sensible, overall. (Of course, if you rsync to a memory stick or something else that is FAT32 formatted then there should not be an issue.) As an aside, I'm not sure rsync is actually much faster than just downloading install-tl.zip and letting the batch file do the downloading. I'd suggest that for a single-user installation there is not likely to be much in it (of course, if you are installing on lots of systems, then downloading first is the right way to go). Joseph
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255087433Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:23:53 +0000 (UTC)
Joseph Wright a écrit : > Like Manue, I also set out to do some testing. However, I know a bit > more about Windows so I can provide a (sort of) solution. > > I downloaded rsync from > > http://www.doering-thomas.de/page.php?seite=1... > > (this is the Cygwin version but without needing all of Cygwin). >
Oh, I'm happy I read this before trying with yet another version of rsync.
> you get Access Denied. This is due to the way rsync sets Windows file > permissions. So I logged on as the Administrator on my system, and used > the Security part of the Properties box to take ownership of everything > I'd rsync'ed, and reset all of the file permissions to "Inherited" (i.e. > removed everything that rsync had set). Then I ran install-tl again, and > all was fine. >
That's good news!
> Conclusion is that rsync on Windows is not easy to convince to use the > appropriate file permissions: that is not TeX Live's fault. Resetting > them is not too bad if you know how, but I'm not sure how many people > do. So I'd suggest that rsync on Windows is really for the expert only: > something like ftp seems more sensible, overall.
I agree.
> (Of course, if you > rsync to a memory stick or something else that is FAT32 formatted then > there should not be an issue.) >
Maybe fat32 is quite a good solution here. As you mention, rsync is mainly usefull for installing of many hosts, and nowadays it oftne invloves a (fat32) USB stick.
> As an aside, I'm not sure rsync is actually much faster than just > downloading install-tl.zip and letting the batch file do the > downloading. I'd suggest that for a single-user installation there is > not likely to be much in it (of course, if you are installing on lots of > systems, then downloading first is the right way to go). >
Last year's experience proved that, if not faster, rsync is sometimes more reliable that netinstall even for a single installation, depending on the mirror used. Manuel.
Philip TAYLOR 1255090045Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:07:25 +0000 (UTC)
OK, my thanks to Joseph for a push in the right direction.
I have now re-mirrored (using Norbert's recommended incantation
into an empty) directory, and tried "Install-TL" : result --
"Access is denied".  I have then re-set permissions using
CACLS :

	Cacls * /T /C /P Chaa006:F

and re-tried "Install-TL" : result -- it now appears to be
doing something.  More later.

** Phil.
--------
Joseph Wright wrote: > As previously described, if you then try install-tl > you get Access Denied. This is due to the way rsync sets Windows file > permissions. So I logged on as the Administrator on my system, and used > the Security part of the Properties box to take ownership of everything > I'd rsync'ed, and reset all of the file permissions to "Inherited" (i.e. > removed everything that rsync had set). Then I ran install-tl again, and > all was fine.
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255178842Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:47:22 +0000 (UTC)
Philip TAYLOR a écrit : > Cacls * /T /C /P Chaa006:F >
I tried this, and get an error message (translated back from French): "Mapping between account name and security IDs was not done." Subsequently, I can't access the files nor delete them (not a big problem, temporary hard drive on a virtual machine). If I cd in the "archive" directory, even "dir" fails ("file not found"). Anyway, should I do something special before I can use the above cacls invocation successfully? Thanks, Manuel.
Alexander Cherepanov 1255116294Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:24:54 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Joseph! On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:14:01 +0100, Joseph Wright wrote: > So I logged on as the Administrator on my system, and used > the Security part of the Properties box to take ownership of everything > I'd rsync'ed, and reset all of the file permissions to "Inherited" (i.e. > removed everything that rsync had set).
That should be prefectly doable under unprivileged user also. Or is there some problems?
> Conclusion is that rsync on Windows is not easy to convince to use the > appropriate file permissions: that is not TeX Live's fault.
Well, this is quite easy -- just don't ask rsync to preserve permissions. Option -a includes option -p (preserve permissions). So I usually use options -rt (recursive, preserve modtimes) instead of -a (which is equal -rlptgoD) on Windows. Then rsync will act as other cygwin programs, including wget. Which could also be troublesome;-( Easy solution is to set CYGWIN environment variable to nontsec (doc: http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/ntsec.html ). But adjusting umask should probably be enough.
> As an aside, I'm not sure rsync is actually much faster than just > downloading install-tl.zip and letting the batch file do the > downloading. I'd suggest that for a single-user installation there is > not likely to be much in it (of course, if you are installing on lots of > systems, then downloading first is the right way to go).
rsync is ideal for updating (and for fixing broken files, setting modtimes etc.), but wget seems to be better suited for initial download. wget at least can reconnect on lost connections. And generally should be faster. (rsync can compress traffic but we talk about downloading already compressed files.) One could even think about using something like aria2 to download simultaneously from several mirrors. Alexander Cherepanov
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255118172Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:56:12 +0000 (UTC)
Alexander Cherepanov a écrit : > Well, this is quite easy -- just don't ask rsync to preserve > permissions. Option -a includes option -p (preserve permissions). So I > usually use options -rt (recursive, preserve modtimes) instead of -a > (which is equal -rlptgoD) on Windows. >
I'm quite surprised: I seem to remember that Philip didn't use -a (nor -p) on the first place, only -r, and had problems even this way.
> Then rsync will act as other cygwin programs, including wget. Which > could also be troublesome;-( Easy solution is to set CYGWIN environment > variable to nontsec (doc: http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/ntsec.html > ). But adjusting umask should probably be enough. >
Not if you're using a non-cygwin version of rsync such as the one from Synametrics, I assume? Manuel.
Philip TAYLOR 1255121262Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:47:42 +0000 (UTC)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > I'm quite surprised: I seem to remember that Philip didn't use -a (nor -p) on > the first place, only -r, and had problems even this way.
This is true : I used the exact incantation recommended in the Pretest documentation : -r --delete --exclude ...
> Not if you're using a non-cygwin version of rsync such as the one from > Synametrics, I assume?
I have a feeling that when Synametrics' Rsync reports an error, it mentions Cygwin, so it is by no means impossible that it is indeed a Cygwin version that somehow avoids the need to install Cygwin per se. In fact, in looking in the DeltaCopy directory, I see seven (7) files whose names commence with "cyg", including "cygwin1.dll". Incidentally, after a repeat Rsync and CACLS, the Bayer problem did not re-appear, but at the very end of an otherwise apparently successful installation, the installer reports :
> Can't unlink file H:/TeX/Live/2009/temp/bayer.source.tar.xz: Permission denied a > t H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLUtils.pm line 765. > Can't remove directory H:/TeX/Live/2009/temp: Directory not empty at H:/TeX/Live > /2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLUtils.pm line 745. > Logfile: H:/TeX/Live/2009/install-tl.log > Press any key to continue . . .
** Phil.
(Karl Berry)1255122132Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:02:12 +0000 (UTC)
This is true : I used the exact incantation recommended
    in the Pretest documentation : -r --delete --exclude ...

Which I subsequently changed to -a instead of -r, but my understanding
from perusing these many messages is that neither one works on Windows.

With -r, the files that are supposed to be executable aren't.

With -a, the special Windows permissions, apparently in combination with
our manifest files, result in "access denied".

Conclusion: rsync cannot be usefully used to mirror TL 2009.

What's different from your successful experience with rsync in 2008 is
the addition of the manifest files.  But we have no choice about
including them, or everything fails on Vista/W7.  As I understand it.
Philip TAYLOR 1255165661Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:07:41 +0000 (UTC)
[follow-up]

I have iteratively removed each element from the manifest
file, ending up with a completely empty one, and at no
stage was I able to avoid the "Access is denied" message.
Thus it is merely the /presence/ of the manifest file
(together with the aberrant permissions) that is sufficient
to trigger this behaviour.  Does anyone have the access
to the Microsoft toolkit that would allow the manifest file
to be merged with the .exe ?  It would be interesting to
learn if that eliminated the problem.

** Phil.
T T 1255170127Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:22:07 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/10 Philip TAYLOR : > [follow-up] > > I have iteratively removed each element from the manifest > file, ending up with a completely empty one, and at no > stage was I able to avoid the "Access is denied" message. > Thus it is merely the /presence/ of the manifest file > (together with the aberrant permissions) that is sufficient > to trigger this behaviour. Does anyone have the access > to the Microsoft toolkit that would allow the manifest file > to be merged with the .exe ? It would be interesting to > learn if that eliminated the problem.
What are the permissions for perl.exe vs. perl.exe.manifest? I suspect that they don't match and that this is the root of the problem. Cheers, Tomek
Philip TAYLOR 1255172160Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:56:00 +0000 (UTC)
See below, Tomek :
--------
T T wrote: > What are the permissions for perl.exe vs. perl.exe.manifest? I suspect > that they don't match and that this is the root of the problem.
H:\TeX\Live\2009\Test\perl.exe RV-3\Chaa006:(special access:) STANDARD_RIGHTS_ALL DELETE READ_CONTROL WRITE_DAC WRITE_OWNER SYNCHRONIZE STANDARD_RIGHTS_REQUIRED FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_GENERIC_WRITE FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE FILE_READ_DATA FILE_WRITE_DATA FILE_APPEND_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_WRITE_EA FILE_EXECUTE FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES RV-3\None:R Everyone:R H:\TeX\Live\2009\Test\perl.exe.manifest RV-3\Chaa006:(special access:) STANDARD_RIGHTS_ALL DELETE READ_CONTROL WRITE_DAC WRITE_OWNER SYNCHRONIZE STANDARD_RIGHTS_REQUIRED FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_GENERIC_WRITE FILE_READ_DATA FILE_WRITE_DATA FILE_APPEND_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_WRITE_EA FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES RV-3\None:(special access:) READ_CONTROL SYNCHRONIZE FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_READ_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES Everyone:(special access:) READ_CONTROL SYNCHRONIZE FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_READ_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES H:\TeX\Live\2009\Test\perl58.dll RV-3\Chaa006:(special access:) STANDARD_RIGHTS_ALL DELETE READ_CONTROL WRITE_DAC WRITE_OWNER SYNCHRONIZE STANDARD_RIGHTS_REQUIRED FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_GENERIC_WRITE FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE FILE_READ_DATA FILE_WRITE_DATA FILE_APPEND_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_WRITE_EA FILE_EXECUTE FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES RV-3\None:R Everyone:R
Philip TAYLOR 1255175618Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:53:38 +0000 (UTC)
I know nothing about either manifest files or
Vista (like Don, I hope I die before I /have/
to use Vista), but the following page concerning
problems with external manifest files and
Microsoft O/Ss earlier than Vista recommends 
specifically :
> Note: make sure you use <trustInfo xmlns="urn: > schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v2"> instead of .v3
from http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US... whilst the manifest file for Perl.exe uses .v3 There is no evidence to suggest that this will help in the present case, but it would be interesting if the author of the manifest file could comment on its contents, and perhaps advise on the exact function of each element. Incidentally, I have just corrected the line-endings in the manifest file for Perl.exe, and having then laid it out canonically there would appear to be a missing </assembly> at the very end. ** Phil.
Akira Kakuto 1255181815Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:36:55 +0000 (UTC)
>>     Cacls * /T /C /P Chaa006:F
?>
> I tried this, and get an error message (translated back from French): > "Mapping between account name and security IDs was not done." > > Subsequently, I can't access the files nor delete them (not a big problem, > temporary hard drive on a virtual machine). If I cd in the "archive" directory, > even "dir" fails ("file not found").
Chaa006 is a user name. Best, Akira
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255187829Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:17:09 +0000 (UTC)
Akira Kakuto a écrit : >>> Cacls * /T /C /P Chaa006:F > > Chaa006 is a user name. >
Sorry for being so stupid. I thought is was some attribute code. It works like charm now. Thanks, Manuel.
Alexander Cherepanov 1255121731Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:55:31 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Manuel! On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:56:21 +0200, Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: >> Well, this is quite easy -- just don't ask rsync to preserve >> permissions. Option -a includes option -p (preserve permissions). So I >> usually use options -rt (recursive, preserve modtimes) instead of -a >> (which is equal -rlptgoD) on Windows. > I'm quite surprised: I seem to remember that Philip didn't use -a (nor -p) on > the first place, only -r, and had problems even this way.
In fact, I don't quite understand what was the problem, e.g., if it was related to ntfs permissions why deleting .manifest changed anything. And I haven't read all the thread carefully enough so my comment was more like a general note. It seems you have reproduced the original problem with "rsync -avz". Maybe you could try with "rsync -rt" (from the empty dir)? Probably it's enough to use local mirror, i.e. to compare the result of rsync -a /local/mirror/ . and rsync -rt /local/mirror/ .
>> Then rsync will act as other cygwin programs, including wget. Which >> could also be troublesome;-( Easy solution is to set CYGWIN environment >> variable to nontsec (doc: http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/ntsec.html >> ). But adjusting umask should probably be enough. > Not if you're using a non-cygwin version of rsync such as the one from > Synametrics, I assume?
Well, I haven't tried Synametrics rsync myself but judging by the contents of http://aboutmyip.com/files/DeltaCopyRaw.zip their rsync.exe is also cygwin-based. Alexander Cherepanov
Joseph Wright 1255176167Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:02:47 +0000 (UTC)
Alexander Cherepanov wrote: >> I'm quite surprised: I seem to remember that Philip didn't use -a (nor -p) on >> the first place, only -r, and had problems even this way. > > In fact, I don't quite understand what was the problem, e.g., if it > was related to ntfs permissions why deleting .manifest changed > anything. And I haven't read all the thread carefully enough so my > comment was more like a general note.
Neither do I. For me, deleting .manifest (I'm on XP) made no difference: it was definitely the file permissions that were at fault.
Alexander Cherepanov 1255179879Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:04:39 +0000 (UTC)
Hi All! On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:48:49 +0400, "Alexander Cherepanov" wrote: > It seems you have reproduced the original problem with "rsync -avz". > Maybe you could try with "rsync -rt" (from the empty dir)?
I've got to a WinXP machine myself and reproduced the problem with plain cygwin rsync. First, it seems to be a bug in cygwin rsync: rsync sets strange permissions when instructed not to preserve original permissions. The following test illustrates it: $ touch a $ cp a b $ rsync a c $ ls -og ? -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 a -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 b ----rw---- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 c According to man page rsync in such a case should behave the same as other file-copy utilities. As a result "rsync -r" on cygwin just makes downloaded files unreadable. I see two solutions -- either make rsync not touch permissions at all via "set CYGWIN=nontsec" or make it preserve the permissions of the source files. The former works great, the latter leads us to the next problem. Windows seems to want execute permissions for .manifest and .dll files. It is probably better to correct this in the repo with a comand like this (from a suitable dir): find -name '*.manifest' -o -name '*.dll' | xargs chmod +x Or it could be corrected on the fly (for all files, not only for .manifest and .dll) with --chmod option for rsync. Start rsync command with the following options: rsync -rtp --chmod +x ... (recursive, preserve modtimes and permissions, assume execute permission for all files). Alexander Cherepanov
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255189431Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:43:51 +0000 (UTC)
Alexander Cherepanov a écrit : > $ touch a > $ cp a b > $ rsync a c > $ ls -og ? > -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 a > -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 b > ----rw---- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 c > > According to man page rsync in such a case should behave the same as other > file-copy utilities. > > As a result "rsync -r" on cygwin just makes downloaded files > unreadable.
I agree that it really looks like a bug. Would anyone like to report it to cygwin maintainers? (Not me, since I don't use nor am familiar with cygwin.)
> I see two solutions -- either make rsync not touch > permissions at all via "set CYGWIN=nontsec" or make it preserve the > permissions of the source files. The former works great, the latter > leads us to the next problem. > > Windows seems to want execute permissions for .manifest and .dll > files. It is probably better to correct this in the repo with a comand > like this (from a suitable dir): > > find -name '*.manifest' -o -name '*.dll' | xargs chmod +x >
Great news! It works this way (I'm using my linux box as a local rsync server and download from my XP SP 3 box using rsync -rtlp). More precisely: 1. With current permissions in tlnet: the now famous "access denied" error. 2. With *.manifest executable: Perl starts but can't load various modules, starting with Win32/API/API.dll, failing with "access denied" errors. 3. With *.manifest executable and *.dll executable: WORKS :-)
> Or it could be corrected on the fly (for all files, not only for .manifest > and .dll) with --chmod option for rsync. Start rsync command with the > following options: > > rsync -rtp --chmod +x ... > > (recursive, preserve modtimes and permissions, assume execute permission > for all files). >
I think it's better to change it on the server. I just changed permissions (I mean, svn:executable properties) in the repo for *.dll and perl.exe.manifest, it should be propagated to mirrors later. Manuel.
Ken Brown 1255192689Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:38:09 +0000 (UTC)
On 10/10/2009 11:44 AM, Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > Alexander Cherepanov a écrit : >> $ touch a >> $ cp a b >> $ rsync a c >> $ ls -og ? >> -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 a >> -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 b >> ----rw---- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 c >> >> According to man page rsync in such a case should behave the same as other >> file-copy utilities. >> >> As a result "rsync -r" on cygwin just makes downloaded files >> unreadable. > > I agree that it really looks like a bug. Would anyone like to report it to > cygwin maintainers? (Not me, since I don't use nor am familiar with cygwin.)
rsync works fine in my cygwin systems (both 1.5 and 1.7), so there's no point in reporting it. Alexander must be using an old version, or else something else on his system is messing up the permissions. Ken
Staszek Wawrykiewicz 1255194816Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:13:36 +0000 (UTC)
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009, Ken Brown wrote: > On 10/10/2009 11:44 AM, Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > > I agree that it really looks like a bug. Would anyone like to report it to > > cygwin maintainers? (Not me, since I don't use nor am familiar with cygwin.) > > rsync works fine in my cygwin systems (both 1.5 and 1.7), so there's no > point in reporting it. Alexander must be using an old version, or else > something else on his system is messing up the permissions.
Yes, but in this thread we are talking about using this cygwin rsync (the only available?) in regular Windows XP, Vista, etc., not about using rsync in cygwin itself. I think that it caused most missunderstanding...
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255196422Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:40:22 +0000 (UTC)
Staszek Wawrykiewicz a écrit : > On Sat, 10 Oct 2009, Ken Brown wrote: > >> On 10/10/2009 11:44 AM, Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: >>> I agree that it really looks like a bug. Would anyone like to report it to >>> cygwin maintainers? (Not me, since I don't use nor am familiar with cygwin.) >> rsync works fine in my cygwin systems (both 1.5 and 1.7), so there's no >> point in reporting it. Alexander must be using an old version, or else >> something else on his system is messing up the permissions. > > Yes, but in this thread we are talking about using this cygwin > rsync (the only available?) in regular Windows XP, Vista, etc., not > about using rsync in cygwin itself. I think that it caused most > missunderstanding... >
Yes, most of the time we were talking about that. But Alexander's message seemed to be about "true" cygwin rsync. That's why I suggested it should be reported. Anyway, this doesn't concern TL any more... Manuel.
Alexander Cherepanov 1255210746Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:39:06 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Manuel! On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:40:42 +0200, Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: >> Yes, but in this thread we are talking about using this cygwin >> rsync (the only available?) in regular Windows XP, Vista, etc., not >> about using rsync in cygwin itself. I think that it caused most >> missunderstanding... > Yes, most of the time we were talking about that. But Alexander's message seemed > to be about "true" cygwin rsync.
Yes, I tried on a machine with installed cygwin 1.5. But it was not customized so there should be no difference with a standalone cygwin binary AIUI. BTW rsync.exe and cygwin1.dll in http://aboutmyip.com/files/DeltaCopyRaw.zip are identical (including timestamps, up to timezone) to last official cygwin1.5 binaries. > That's why I suggested it should be reported. Seems nobody else have this porblem, so I will investigate it later. > Anyway, this doesn't concern TL any more... Yep, happy end:-) Alexander Cherepanov
Alexander Cherepanov 1255209805Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:23:25 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Ken! On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:38:15 -0400, Ken Brown wrote: >>> $ touch a >>> $ cp a b >>> $ rsync a c >>> $ ls -og ? >>> -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 a >>> -rw-rw-rw- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 b >>> ----rw---- 1 0 Oct 10 16:14 c >>> >>> According to man page rsync in such a case should behave the same as other >>> file-copy utilities. >>> >>> As a result "rsync -r" on cygwin just makes downloaded files >>> unreadable. >> >> I agree that it really looks like a bug. Would anyone like to report it to >> cygwin maintainers? (Not me, since I don't use nor am familiar with cygwin.) > rsync works fine in my cygwin systems (both 1.5 and 1.7), so there's no > point in reporting it. Alexander must be using an old version, or else > something else on his system is messing up the permissions.
Could be. If you have any ideas what could go wrong please share (off-list as it's off-topic here). Tried with fresh install of cygwin 1.7 -- all the same. Alexander Cherepanov
Philip TAYLOR 1255203520Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:38:40 +0000 (UTC)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > I think it's better to change it on the server. I just changed permissions (I > mean, svn:executable properties) in the repo for *.dll and perl.exe.manifest, it > should be propagated to mirrors later.
This is splendid news for all Windows TeX users. My sincere thanks to everyone who helped to resolve this, and particularly to Alexander Cherepanov who (I think) first identified the root cause of the problem. ** Phil.
Philip TAYLOR 1255256950Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:29:10 +0000 (UTC)
I performed a brief, partial, mirror today
(just Perl.exe, .dll, .manifest) and all does
indeed seem well.  Perl now runs without access
denied messages, although I will need to perform
a full mirror to make sure that there are no
other problems.  However, I notice that after
correcting the line endings in Perl.exe.manifest
and re-formatting into canonical layout, the final
</assembly> still appears missing.  Here is
the re-formatted file (attached).

** Phil.
Vladimir Volovich 1255258937Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:02:17 +0000 (UTC)
"PT" == Philip TAYLOR writes:

 PT> However, I notice that after correcting the line endings in
 PT> Perl.exe.manifest and re-formatting into canonical layout, the
 PT> final </assembly> still appears missing.  Here is the re-formatted
 PT> file (attached).

[...]
 PT> <assembly xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1"
 PT> manifestVersion="1.0">
  
 PT> 	<assemblyIdentity version="1.0.0.0" processorArchitecture="*"
 PT> name="perl.exe" type="win32"/>
 PT> 	</assembly>

your indentation is wrong - assemblyIdentity is a closed element -
notice that it has the form <assemblyIdentity .../>
and </assembly> opening <assembly ...>

xmllint confirms that perl.exe.manifest is a valid xml file.

Best,
v.
Philip TAYLOR 1255260182Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:23:02 +0000 (UTC)
Ah, mea culpa : can't think how I missed that !
** Phil.
--------
Vladimir Volovich wrote: > your indentation is wrong - assemblyIdentity is a closed element - > notice that it has the form <assemblyIdentity .../> > and </assembly> opening <assembly ...> > > xmllint confirms that perl.exe.manifest is a valid xml file.
Vladimir Volovich 1255258978Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:02:58 +0000 (UTC)
i wrote: > and </assembly> opening <assembly ...>
missing word: should be and </assembly> matches the opening <assembly ...> Best, v.
Joseph Wright 1255176551Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:09:11 +0000 (UTC)
Alexander Cherepanov wrote: > Hi Joseph! > On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:14:01 +0100, Joseph Wright wrote: > >> So I logged on as the Administrator on my system, and used >> the Security part of the Properties box to take ownership of everything >> I'd rsync'ed, and reset all of the file permissions to "Inherited" (i.e. >> removed everything that rsync had set). > > That should be prefectly doable under unprivileged user also. Or is > there some problems?
I always install as Administrator, and only every force permissions from the Admin account. More to do with me than anything: as Phil has pointed out, using cacls as the user who did the rsync sorts things out fine.
> >> Conclusion is that rsync on Windows is not easy to convince to use the >> appropriate file permissions: that is not TeX Live's fault. > > Well, this is quite easy -- just don't ask rsync to preserve > permissions. Option -a includes option -p (preserve permissions). So I > usually use options -rt (recursive, preserve modtimes) instead of -a > (which is equal -rlptgoD) on Windows. > > Then rsync will act as other cygwin programs, including wget. Which > could also be troublesome;-( Easy solution is to set CYGWIN environment > variable to nontsec (doc: http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/ntsec.html > ). But adjusting umask should probably be enough.
A bit of reading on Cygwin sites suggests that nontsec has been superseded by a setting in /etc/fstab (noacl). I tried both methods: neither seemed to make a difference. The /etc/fstab one is a bit confusing if not using a full Cygwin installation (it's supposed to work, but didn't for me.)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255178523Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:42:03 +0000 (UTC)
Joseph Wright a écrit : > A bit of reading on Cygwin sites suggests that nontsec has been > superseded by a setting in /etc/fstab (noacl). I tried both methods: > neither seemed to make a difference. The /etc/fstab one is a bit > confusing if not using a full Cygwin installation (it's supposed to > work, but didn't for me.)
Funny, I just tried the following: set CYGWIN=nontsec "c:\Program Files\Synametric Technologies\DeltaCopy\rsync.exe" -rt ../tlnet . install-tl.bat -scheme scheme-minimal and it worked. I'm going to try again directly from the mirror, not my local disk, to see what happens. Manuel.
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255180068Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:07:48 +0000 (UTC)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard a écrit : > I'm going to try again directly from the mirror, not my local disk, to see what > happens. >
Just tried, it works too. Btw, I tried -rtl as options for rsync, and it avoids the warning about "non-regular files" and creats .lnk files for symlinks. (A minor point indeed, but it makes the output look cleaner.) > Manuel.
T T 1255087828Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:30:28 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/9 Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard : > If we can identify a reliable method for getting a local mirror on > windows (I tend to think a simple ftp client would do for a on-time > mirror, ie without synchronization) and document it somewhere, I think > that would be good.
I regularly use wget for that purpose. I have a batch that updates my local repository. My script is a bit involved because I only pull a subset of tlnet that I have installed but mirroring the whole thing could be done with single line incantation: wget -m -nH -np --retr-symlinks --cut-dirs=1 -R "index.html*,mactex-*" ftp://host-address/texlive/tlnet Cheers, Tomek
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255088125Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:35:25 +0000 (UTC)
T T a écrit : > 2009/10/9 Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard : >> If we can identify a reliable method for getting a local mirror on >> windows (I tend to think a simple ftp client would do for a on-time >> mirror, ie without synchronization) and document it somewhere, I think >> that would be good. > > I regularly use wget for that purpose. I have a batch that updates my > local repository. My script is a bit involved because I only pull a > subset of tlnet that I have installed but mirroring the whole thing > could be done with single line incantation: > > wget -m -nH -np --retr-symlinks --cut-dirs=1 -R "index.html*,mactex-*" > ftp://host-address/texlive/tlnet >
Nice (I tried getting a copy with wget some time ago, but finding the good options is not that easy). I think this command line should be put somewhere in the online documentation (probably acquire.html). (I was about to point out that wget is not exactly a standard windows tool, but neither rsync anyway.) Btw, if we only want to download once without synchronizing, any ftp client (I mean, even graphical ones) does the trick. I tried with filezilla some time ago, worked out of the bow in two clicks. Maybe the online documentation should mention wget and other ftp clients first as means of obtaining a local copy of tlnet, and rsync only latter, since it is more for expert users who want to maintain an up-to-date copy of tlnet while minimizing bandwidth use. Manuel.
T T 1255089366Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:56:06 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/9 Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard : > (I was about to point out that wget is not exactly a standard windows tool, but > neither rsync anyway.)
But we do ship wget with the installer, while we don't ship rsync. In fact, once you unpack the install-tl.zip, you only need to download tlnet/archive/ and tlnet/tlpkg/texlive.tlpdb*. Cheers, Tomek
Staszek Wawrykiewicz 1255108142Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:09:02 +0000 (UTC)
After reading that so looong thread, I think that we rather have to
discourage using rsync on Windows.
I use wget for years and never had such strange problems with permissions 
sets, .manifest files on XP, etc., etc. No need to run cacls afterwards
(it seems crazy for simple windows user).
We provide stable wget.exe and I use the following 00tlget.bat file 
every day:

wget -b -m -nH -np --cut-dirs=2 --retr-symlinks -X "/texlive/tlnet/2008" 
   -R "mactex*,update-tlmgr-r*,index.html*" ftp://host-address/texlive/tlnet

(of course should be one line). Notes:
1. -b runs wget in the background and writes wget.log
2. --cut-dirs=NUMBER ignore NUMBER remote directory components
     (not so important, but prevents downloading too deep structure, eg.
      in given example 2 means that wget will strip texlive/tlnet)
3. ftp or http address should be adapted to the repository in use

That's all. All needed files are well mirrored and then the user can 
run
install-tl[-advanced].bat 
from its directory (no need to give -repository parameter).

All the best,
T T 1255085383Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:49:43 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/9 Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard : > Joseph Wright a écrit : >> 2) Although there are lots of Windows users, most of them are likely to >> use MiKTeX if they want a TeX system. > > I don't quite agree. I mean, you're right that most of them do, but we spent > quite a lot of time trying to get windows support right, it would be a pity to > say that people should just use MiKTeX after all these efforts.
If forum posts are any indication, MiKTeX installation is no near trouble-free either. And we have spent a lot of effort this year to properly support Vista madness, we might be even better on this account than MiKTeX. Cheers, Tomek
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255087592Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:26:32 +0000 (UTC)
T T a écrit : > 2009/10/9 Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard : >> Joseph Wright a écrit : >>> 2) Although there are lots of Windows users, most of them are likely to >>> use MiKTeX if they want a TeX system. >> I don't quite agree. I mean, you're right that most of them do, but we spent >> quite a lot of time trying to get windows support right, it would be a pity to >> say that people should just use MiKTeX after all these efforts. > > If forum posts are any indication, MiKTeX installation is no near > trouble-free either. And we have spent a lot of effort this year to > properly support Vista madness, we might be even better on this > account than MiKTeX. >
By the way, last year, my university's window admins gave up on MikTeX installation the first time they tried (problems with mirror). Manuel.
George N. White III 1255088426Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:40:26 +0000 (UTC)
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Joseph Wright wrote: > Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> It seems to me that moving to release status is still somewhat >> premature for Windows users, who numerically exceed Linux users >> by a substantial ratio. > > But: > > 1) When downloading the installer and letting it do the installation, > all is fine. That is the most common method for Windows users, I suspect.
Maybe for sites with good access to a CTAN mirror, but not so if the user's network access is poor. The issue here seems to be 2-fold: 1) using Windows to mirror the CTAN site, which is really for a different forum, but it would be good to have links for TL users who need to do this. 2) installing under XP from a mirror on a local disk (as opposed to using a local http server). For people running linux, unix, or macosx it is common to have (internal) http servers. MiKTeX 2.8 can use a mirror on a disk, but does not support installs from ad-hoc URL's. TL seems to reverse this. I think this reflects the differences in the two development platforms more than any fundamental limitation, and there are likely ways to work around the issues.
> 2) Although there are lots of Windows users, most of them are likely to > use MiKTeX if they want a TeX system.
In my experience, those who work exclusively in windows are generally happy with MiKTeX (and more so if the site provides a local mirror of the MiKTeX packages, less so if they use ConTeXt). There are many people who work in environments with multiple OS's. TL on Windows is useful to those who collaborate with people who use TL on other platforms, especially if the work involves things other than standard journal articles using LaTeX.
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255091032Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:23:52 +0000 (UTC)
George N. White III a écrit : > MiKTeX 2.8 can use a mirror on a disk, but does not support installs > from ad-hoc URL's. TL seems to reverse this. I think this reflects > the differences in the two development platforms more than any > fundamental limitation, and there are likely ways to work around the > issues. >
??? I regularly install from a local mirror without using my local http server, and already did so on windows too. From install-tl --help -repository url|path Specify the package repository to be used as the source of the installation, either a local directory via "/path/to/directory" or a "file:/" url, or a network location via a "http://" or "ftp://" url. (No other protocols are supported.) [...] Did you actually try? If so, what went wrong? Manuel.
George N. White III 1255099786Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:49:46 +0000 (UTC)
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: > George N. White III a écrit : >> MiKTeX 2.8 can use a mirror on a disk, but does not support installs >> from ad-hoc URL's. TL seems to reverse this. I think this reflects >> the differences in the two development platforms more than any >> fundamental limitation, and there are likely ways to work around the >> issues. >> > ??? I regularly install from a local mirror without using my local http server, > and already did so on windows too. From install-tl --help > > -repository url|path > Specify the package repository to be used as the source of the > installation, either a local directory via "/path/to/directory" or > a "file:/" url, or a network location via a "http://" or "ftp://" > url. (No other protocols are supported.) > [...] > > Did you actually try? If so, what went wrong?
What went wrong is the point of this thread. It is Philip (in his best "Chris Freshman" mode) who tried most recently using XP. Issues: 0. lack of robust free mirroring tools to create the local files with appropriate permissions (documentation should provide advice) 1. conflicts with remnants of older versions of TL (probably affects network installs as well, and may not be an issue if future upgrades are handled by installer). 2. dealing with incorrect permissions (since this is likely to be a common problem, an installer needs to provide useful guidance if it can't just repair permissions) 3. differences between windows versions (.manifest file needed for recent versions)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255113001Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:30:01 +0000 (UTC)
George N. White III a écrit : > On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard wrote: >> George N. White III a écrit : >>> MiKTeX 2.8 can use a mirror on a disk, but does not support installs >>> from ad-hoc URL's. TL seems to reverse this. I think this reflects >>> the differences in the two development platforms more than any >>> fundamental limitation, and there are likely ways to work around the >>> issues. >>> >> ??? I regularly install from a local mirror without using my local http server, >> and already did so on windows too. From install-tl --help >> >> -repository url|path >> Specify the package repository to be used as the source of the >> installation, either a local directory via "/path/to/directory" or >> a "file:/" url, or a network location via a "http://" or "ftp://" >> url. (No other protocols are supported.) >> [...] >> >> Did you actually try? If so, what went wrong? > > What went wrong is the point of this thread.
Not precisely. As you clearly mentionned, there are two points: 1. Getting a copy of tlnet on the local disk (with correct permitions etc) 2. Using it directly (not through a http server). I was answering to point 2. In the pragraph I quoted, you say that install-tl cannot use a local copy without a http server. My question is: once you got a correct local copy with correct permissions, is there any problem when you try using it?
> 0. lack of robust free mirroring tools to create the local files with > appropriate permissions (documentation should provide advice) >
Irrelevant wrt the local disk vs local http server question.
> 1. conflicts with remnants of older versions of TL (probably affects > network installs as well, and may not be an issue if future upgrades > are handled by installer). >
Idem. (And btw I'm not sure there is a confirmed case of this.)
> 2. dealing with incorrect permissions (since this is likely to be a > common problem, an installer needs to provide useful guidance > if it can't just repair permissions) >
Idem. (And incorrect permissions are not a common problem using one of the two recommended installation methods: net install and install from DVD.)
> 3. differences between windows versions (.manifest file needed for > recent versions) >
Idem. Manuel.
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard 1255114037Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:47:17 +0000 (UTC)
Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard a écrit : >>> Did you actually try? If so, what went wrong? >> What went wrong is the point of this thread. > > Not precisely.
Just to be clear: I'm not trying to say that TL installation procedure is perfect. I'm just saying that in this thread I see only *one* problem: rsync is not an adequate solution for getting a local copy of tlnet on windows (except maybe on FAT32 volumes). One a adequate method is found to create this local copy, using the local copy should not be a problem (and there is not need to use a local http server). So my question was: did you ever have any problem with installing from a local dsk copy *other* than those coming from rsync mirroring? m
T T 1255091735Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:35:35 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/9 George N. White III : > On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Joseph Wright > wrote: >> Philip TAYLOR wrote: >>> It seems to me that moving to release status is still somewhat >>> premature for Windows users, who numerically exceed Linux users >>> by a substantial ratio. >> >> But: >> >> 1) When downloading the installer and letting it do the installation, >> all is fine. That is the most common method for Windows users, I suspect. > > Maybe for sites with good access to a CTAN mirror, but not so if the user's > network access is poor. The issue here seems to be 2-fold: > > 1) using Windows to mirror the CTAN site, which is really for a different > forum, but it would be good to have links for TL users who need to do > this.
I will try to think of something for mirroring tlnet, once the DVD is out of the door.
> > 2) installing under XP from a mirror on a local disk (as opposed to using > a local http server). For people running linux, unix, or macosx it is > common to have (internal) http servers. > > MiKTeX 2.8 can use a mirror on a disk, but does not support installs > from ad-hoc URL's. TL seems to reverse this. I think this reflects > the differences in the two development platforms more than any > fundamental limitation, and there are likely ways to work around the > issues.
install-tl[-advanced].bat -repository C:\path\to\local\mirror [options] Works for me. What have you tried? Cheers, Tomek
Alexander Cherepanov 1255114153Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:49:13 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Philip! On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:57:00 +0100, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Dear Norbert -- I was about to file a "no progress" > report when I realised that I was uncertain as to > your intentions : when you suggested that I replace > "-r" by "-avz" in the Rsync incantation, did you > intend that I first delete the entire mirror and > then re-create it, or did you believe that "-avz" > would set the correct flags on already-mirrored > files ?
Yes, -avz is supposed to correct what was already downloaded. That's the entire point of using rsync. Alexander Cherepanov
Philip TAYLOR 1254913788Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:09:48 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > BTW, what is that -local . an argument for? It is AFAIR not an argument > that is supported by the installer.
I cannot be sure that there was never a time when I typed "local" as a Freudian slip for "location", but I have just repeated the test (manifest file deleted, echo on) with this incantation : > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>Install-TL -location . -gui perltk and the results are as before :
> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>rem Start installer > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>path > PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered
products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM
> ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl"
-location . -g
> ui perltk > Can't load
'H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\lib/auto/Win32/API/API.dll' for > module Win32::API: load_file:Access is denied at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\
> tlperl\lib/DynaLoader.pm line 230. > at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo.pm line 130 > Compilation failed in require at
H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo.
> pm line 130. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at
H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWin
> Goo.pm line 141. > Compilation failed in require at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl
line 62.
> > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>pause
** Phil.
Lars Madsen 1254844176Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:49:36 +0000 (UTC)
> > So, if anyone has been waiting to test until things are getting close to > final ... now would be a good time to give it a shot. Information about > trying the pretest is at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html. > > Karl
One small comment do not do this mkdir TL09-test cd TL09-test wget http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/install-... tar zxvf install-tl-unx.tar.gz cd install-tl ./install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ and then ask it to install in TL09-test (in my case /home/testuser/TL09-test), aka the dir where we just created install-tl because then when the texlive-scripts gets installed tar complains: tar: install-tl: Cannot open: File exists tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors untar: untarring /home/testuser/TL09-test/temp/texlive-scripts.tar failed (in /home/testuser/TL09-test) untarring /home/testuser/TL09-test/temp/texlive-scripts.tar failed, stopping install. Installation failed. Will try a better installation test tomorrow. BTW: at the start of the installation I get a lot of these: Unknown category Documentation for package AroBend found. Please update texlive.infra. Unknown category Documentation for package FAQ-en found. Please update texlive.infra. Unknown category Documentation for package MemoirChapStyles found. Please update texlive.infra. Unknown category Documentation for package Type1fonts found. Please update texlive.infra. ... is this normal?
Norbert Preining 1254845539Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:12:19 +0000 (UTC)
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > mkdir TL09-test > cd TL09-test > wget http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/install-... > tar zxvf install-tl-unx.tar.gz > cd install-tl > ./install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ > > and then ask it to install in TL09-test (in my case > /home/testuser/TL09-test), aka the dir where we just created > install-tl
Nooooooooo please don't do that ;-) install-tl then is a directory and the installer itself, not a good idea ;-)
> because then when the texlive-scripts gets installed tar complains: > tar: install-tl: Cannot open: File exists
Yes, exactely ;-)
> BTW: at the start of the installation I get a lot of these: > Unknown category Documentation for package AroBend found. > Please update texlive.infra. > Unknown category Documentation for package FAQ-en found. > Please update texlive.infra.
When did you do that??? It must be quite some time, or you have a copy of that mirror. I checked this moment that in the texlvie.tlpdb at the above site there is: name FAQ-en category Package so definitely not "category Documentation" FFurthermore, the package AroBend does not exists anymore, it is called around-the-bend, ... So I am a bit surprised about these messages. Best wishes Norbert
Lars Madsen 1254858457Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:47:37 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Tue, 06 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: >> mkdir TL09-test >> cd TL09-test >> wget http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/install-... >> tar zxvf install-tl-unx.tar.gz >> cd install-tl >> ./install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ >> >> and then ask it to install in TL09-test (in my case >> /home/testuser/TL09-test), aka the dir where we just created >> install-tl > > Nooooooooo please don't do that ;-) install-tl then is a directory > and the installer itself, not a good idea ;-) > >> because then when the texlive-scripts gets installed tar complains: >> tar: install-tl: Cannot open: File exists > > Yes, exactely ;-) >
which it why it might be an idea to have the installer test for this. It does not say anywhere that one should not do this.
>> BTW: at the start of the installation I get a lot of these: >> Unknown category Documentation for package AroBend found. >> Please update texlive.infra. >> Unknown category Documentation for package FAQ-en found. >> Please update texlive.infra. > > When did you do that??? It must be quite some time, or you have > a copy of that mirror. > > I checked this moment that in the texlvie.tlpdb at the above site > there is: > name FAQ-en > category Package > so definitely not "category Documentation" > > FFurthermore, the package AroBend does not exists anymore, it is called > around-the-bend, ... > > So I am a bit surprised about these messages. > > Beste wishes > the v > Norbert >
just graped the version on the klid.dk mirror I've gotten this for all the tests I've made (did a few last week), all gave the same result as above.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Norbert Preining Associate Professor > JAIST Japan Advanced Institute of Science and Technology > Vienna University of Technology > Debian Developer (Debian TeX Task Force) > gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > BEAULIEU HILL > The optimum vantage point from which one to view people undressing in > the bedroom across the street. > --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
Norbert Preining 1254885307Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:15:07 +0000 (UTC)
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > >>./install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ > >> Unknown category Documentation for package AroBend found. > >> Please update texlive.infra. > just graped the version on the klid.dk mirror
Version of *what*?
> I've gotten this for all the tests I've made (did a few last week), > all gave the same result as above.
I repeat, I checked that both http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/te... and http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/te... do NOT contain the string category Documentation So could you *please* provide a step by step guide how to reproduce this? I tried it myself: - downloaded http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/install-... - unpacked it - cd into install-tl - called install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ - selected only a different (writeable destination) - started the installation and didn't see any of those warning you have described. And in fact there was never a trial to install the packages AroBend because it does not exist anymore since quite some time. Best wishes Norbert
Lars Madsen 1254903849Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:24:09 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Tue, 06 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: >>>> ./install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ > >>>> Unknown category Documentation for package AroBend found. >>>> Please update texlive.infra. > >> just graped the version on the klid.dk mirror > > Version of *what*? > >> I've gotten this for all the tests I've made (did a few last week), >> all gave the same result as above. > > I repeat, I checked that both > http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/te... > and > http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/te... > do NOT contain the string > category Documentation > > So could you *please* provide a step by step guide how to reproduce this? > > I tried it myself: > - downloaded > http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/install-... > - unpacked it > - cd into install-tl > - called > install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ > - selected only a different (writeable destination) > - started the installation > > and didn't see any of those warning you have described. And in fact > there was never a trial to install the packages > AroBend > because it does not exist anymore since quite some time. > > Best wishes > > Norbert
I did exactly what was mentioned in my initial posting. Can it be that it finds data from TL2008 on the system (owned by another user?) After the lines with the complains, it asks whether it should import old settings from the system. I get something like this: ABORTED INSTALLATION FOUND: installation.profile Do you want to continue with the exact same settings as before (y/N): n Installing TeX Live 2009 from: http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet Platform: i386-linux => 'Intel x86 with GNU/Linux' Distribution: net (downloading) Using URL: http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet Directory for temporary files: /home/testuser/tmp Loading http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/te... Unknown category Documentation for package AroBend found. Please update texlive.infra. Unknown category Documentation for package FAQ-en found. Please update texlive.infra. .... An old installation of TeX Live has been found in /vol/packages/TL/2008 If you want the selection of collections and various options being taken over press `y', otherwise anything else. Import settings from previous TeX Live installation: (y/n): ---- Where I usually say no. So I assume that it is reading from the current system, and gets confused from it. /daleif
Norbert Preining 1254913092Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:58:12 +0000 (UTC)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > Unknown category Documentation for package FAQ-en found. > Please update texlive.infra. > .... > An old installation of TeX Live has been found in /vol/packages/TL/2008
Ah yes, agreed. That explains it. We try to load the old tlpdb. That is fine, ignore the warnings.
> Where I usually say no. So I assume that it is reading from the current > system, and gets confused from it.
Ah yes, it is first reading the tlpdb and then asking you. I will change that so that if you answer "n" then no warning will appear. Thanks a lot Norbert
Lars Madsen 1254914444Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:20:44 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: >> Unknown category Documentation for package FAQ-en found. >> Please update texlive.infra. >> .... >> An old installation of TeX Live has been found in /vol/packages/TL/2008 > > Ah yes, agreed. That explains it. We try to load the old tlpdb. > That is fine, ignore the warnings. > >> Where I usually say no. So I assume that it is reading from the current >> system, and gets confused from it. > > Ah yes, it is first reading the tlpdb and then asking you. I will > change that so that if you answer "n" then no warning will appear. > > Thanks a lot > > Norbert >
shouldn't it just test for it at the start, and provide the question before it starts reading, because at the momemnt the y/n question comes after the reading. BTW: have anyone been working on a transplant script for TL09? By this I mean a script that can be used when one wants to more a TL09 installation from one mashine to a Windows, and then integrate it into windows (menus, PATH and stuff). There was a script in TL08, that almost did all of this. It will be very handy for install parties, because installing via web or from DVD is a bit too slow if you have say 20 people trying to install at once. Then having the entire installation on a USB will making the installation a lot faster. (at least in theory)
Norbert Preining 1254914913Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:28:33 +0000 (UTC)
On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > shouldn't it just test for it at the start, and provide the question > before it starts reading, because at the momemnt the y/n question comes > after the reading.
Yes it should, and that is what I have changed just now. So tomorrows installer will have that it first asks and then loads (if y).
> BTW: have anyone been working on a transplant script for TL09? By this I > mean a script that can be used when one wants to more a TL09 > installation from one mashine to a Windows, and then integrate it into > windows (menus, PATH and stuff). There was a script in TL08, that almost > did all of this.
Hmm, there was an example script from Siep, but I have no idea where it disappeared. Siep?
> Then having the entire installation on a USB will making the > installation a lot faster. (at least in theory)
Yeah that we have ... somewhere ... just forgotten where. Best wishes Norbert
T T 1254916770Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:59:30 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/7 Lars Madsen : > BTW: have anyone been working on a transplant script for TL09? By this I > mean a script that can be used when one wants to more a TL09 installation > from one mashine to a Windows, and then integrate it into windows (menus, > PATH and stuff). There was a script in TL08, that almost did all of this.
http://www.tug.org/texlive/w32client
> Then having the entire installation on a USB will making the installation a > lot faster. (at least in theory)
Unless you use Windoze Exploder to do the copy, that is ;-) Cheers, Tomek
Lars Madsen 1254917208Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:06:48 +0000 (UTC)
T T wrote: > 2009/10/7 Lars Madsen : >> BTW: have anyone been working on a transplant script for TL09? By this I >> mean a script that can be used when one wants to more a TL09 installation >> from one mashine to a Windows, and then integrate it into windows (menus, >> PATH and stuff). There was a script in TL08, that almost did all of this. > > http://www.tug.org/texlive/w32client >
interesting, thanks
>> Then having the entire installation on a USB will making the installation a >> lot faster. (at least in theory) > > Unless you use Windoze Exploder to do the copy, that is ;-) >
well, better ideas for copying files in M$? We distribute SAS to our students as two large ZIP file, and ran into an unpatched Vista, that was not updated, thus hitting the bug that vista could not handle files larger than 1Gb through windows explorer. Very nice ....
Philip TAYLOR 1254918198Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:23:18 +0000 (UTC)
Lars Madsen wrote: > T T wrote: >> Unless you use Windoze Exploder to do the copy, that is ;-) >> > > well, better ideas for copying files in M$?
Xcopy is pretty good. ** Phil.
T T 1254920130Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:55:30 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/7 Lars Madsen : > T T wrote: >> Unless you use Windoze Exploder to do the copy, that is ;-) >> > > well, better ideas for copying files in M$?
Exploder will choke on large number of files (and full TL is gigantic). On Vista use robocopy otherwise xcopy, both are command line tools and much more efficient than exploder.
> > We distribute SAS to our students as two large ZIP file, and ran into an > unpatched Vista, that was not updated, thus hitting the bug that vista could > not handle files larger than 1Gb through windows explorer.
You could use multivolume self-extracting archive in that case. Or just tell people to update their systems. Cheers, Tomek
Lars Madsen 1254922476Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:34:36 +0000 (UTC)
T T wrote: > 2009/10/7 Lars Madsen : >> T T wrote: >>> Unless you use Windoze Exploder to do the copy, that is ;-) >>> >> well, better ideas for copying files in M$? > > Exploder will choke on large number of files (and full TL is > gigantic). On Vista use robocopy otherwise xcopy, both are command > line tools and much more efficient than exploder. >
never heard of any of them (never used Vista or W7 either) I have transplanted a TL08 on to an XP without problems, but that was transfered as a large ZIP, which I'd like to avoid (some people might not have tht much disk space, though that should not be a problem anymmore)
>> We distribute SAS to our students as two large ZIP file, and ran into an >> unpatched Vista, that was not updated, thus hitting the bug that vista could >> not handle files larger than 1Gb through windows explorer. > > You could use multivolume self-extracting archive in that case. Or > just tell people to update their systems. >
T T 1254928168Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:09:28 +0000 (UTC)
2009/10/7 Lars Madsen : > T T wrote: >> >> 2009/10/7 Lars Madsen : >>> >>> T T wrote: >> >> Exploder will choke on large number of files (and full TL is >> gigantic). On Vista use robocopy otherwise xcopy, both are command >> line tools and much more efficient than exploder. >> > > never heard of any of them (never used Vista or W7 either)
Xcopy is really ancient (MS-DOS 3.3). Robocopy is pretty old too but wasn't shipped with the system before Vista (command line was always a second class citizen at M$). Cheers, Tomek
Philip TAYLOR 1254923216Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:46:56 +0000 (UTC)
T T wrote: > On Vista use robocopy otherwise xcopy, both are command > line tools and much more efficient than exploder.
Robocopy is also useful on XP & Server 2003. (I knew there was something I normally used in preference to Xcopy, but could not remember it's name ...). ** Phil.
Lars Madsen 1255009062Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:37:42 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: >> Unknown category Documentation for package FAQ-en found. >> Please update texlive.infra. >> .... >> An old installation of TeX Live has been found in /vol/packages/TL/2008 > > Ah yes, agreed. That explains it. We try to load the old tlpdb. > That is fine, ignore the warnings. > >> Where I usually say no. So I assume that it is reading from the current >> system, and gets confused from it. > > Ah yes, it is first reading the tlpdb and then asking you. I will > change that so that if you answer "n" then no warning will appear. > > Thanks a lot > > Norbert >
installation went fine today, placing install-tl outside the installation dir, made things run smoothly. And the complaints at the start have gone away.
Norbert Preining 1255062395Fri, 09 Oct 2009 04:26:35 +0000 (UTC)
On Thu, 08 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > installation went fine today, placing install-tl outside the > installation dir, made things run smoothly. And the complaints at > the start have gone away.
We will rename the unpacked install package install-tl-YYYYMMDD so that if you install into the parent directory it should work. Hope that is fine. Best wishes Norbert
Lars Madsen 1255076165Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:16:05 +0000 (UTC)
Norbert Preining wrote: > On Thu, 08 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: >> installation went fine today, placing install-tl outside the >> installation dir, made things run smoothly. And the complaints at >> the start have gone away. > > We will rename the unpacked install package install-tl-YYYYMMDD so > that if you install into the parent directory it should work. > > Hope that is fine. > > Best wishes > > Norbert >
that is a good idea, it will also immediately be evident which version of the installer one is using
Alexander Cherepanov 1255032110Thu, 08 Oct 2009 20:01:50 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Norbert! On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 01:12:30 +0900, Norbert Preining wrote: >> mkdir TL09-test >> cd TL09-test >> wget http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/install-... >> tar zxvf install-tl-unx.tar.gz >> cd install-tl >> ./install-tl -location http://ftp.klid.dk/ftp/texlive/tlnet/ >> >> and then ask it to install in TL09-test (in my case >> /home/testuser/TL09-test), aka the dir where we just created >> install-tl > Nooooooooo please don't do that ;-) install-tl then is a directory > and the installer itself, not a good idea ;-)
It seems quite reasonable and a couple of days ago I did exactly the same thing (and of cause got the same error). Maybe it's worth it to add some specific check for this case and/or some note to docu? Alexander Cherepanov
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